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 Post subject: Re: Possible future films?
PostPosted: March 30th, 2017, 1:11 pm 
Gondorian
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 Post subject: Re: Possible future films?
PostPosted: April 7th, 2017, 2:26 am 
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Please let there be no future films! Everything g left is more of a history. They are more like stories to be told by the fireplace than movie material. In any case, after the hobbit films, I highly doubt anyone is going to trust Hollywood with Tolkien anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible future films?
PostPosted: April 7th, 2017, 3:19 am 
Dunedain Ranger of Arnor
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Héalic wrote:
I highly doubt anyone is going to trust Hollywood with Tolkien anymore.


More specifically, PJ Boyens & Co.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible future films?
PostPosted: April 7th, 2017, 2:02 pm 
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Hanasian wrote:
Héalic wrote:
I highly doubt anyone is going to trust Hollywood with Tolkien anymore.


More specifically, PJ Boyens & Co.

Well, the holders of the rights to everything but LoTR and TH, the Tolkien Trust (while CJRT lives) are unlikely to do so. We do not know what Guillermo del Toro's two-film "The Hobbit" would have looked like. Expanding TH into a trilogy was later decided upon by PJ & co. No question that this added padding that was not really necessary. But one thing I challenge any grumps about PJ's treatment of Third Age Middle-earth to do is to name a director (and the rest of the usual rabble that slinks about behind the scenes) who could have done a better job. I, for one, can think of no one else. Help us out, Dunedain Ranger of Arnor!

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 Post subject: Re: Possible future films?
PostPosted: April 14th, 2017, 7:19 pm 
Dunedain Ranger of Arnor
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Gandolorin wrote:
Hanasian wrote:
Héalic wrote:
I highly doubt anyone is going to trust Hollywood with Tolkien anymore.


More specifically, PJ Boyens & Co.

Well, the holders of the rights to everything but LoTR and TH, the Tolkien Trust (while CJRT lives) are unlikely to do so. We do not know what Guillermo del Toro's two-film "The Hobbit" would have looked like. Expanding TH into a trilogy was later decided upon by PJ & co. No question that this added padding that was not really necessary. But one thing I challenge any grumps about PJ's treatment of Third Age Middle-earth to do is to name a director (and the rest of the usual rabble that slinks about behind the scenes) who could have done a better job. I, for one, can think of no one else. Help us out, Dunedain Ranger of Arnor!


:-o Seriously???? :duh:

Well.... for starters, Ciaran Donnelly.....

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 Post subject: Re: Possible future films?
PostPosted: April 14th, 2017, 7:30 pm 
Elf
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Hanasian wrote:
Gandolorin wrote:
... director who could have done a better job [than PJ]. I, for one, can think of no one else. Help us out, Dunedain Ranger of Arnor!


:-o Seriously???? :duh:

Well.... for starters, Ciaran Donnelly.....

Checked him out on Wiki - doesn't tinkle the smallest bell (not his fault - I'm pretty badly out of the loop regarding the films of the last ten or more years, never mind any anglophone TV series).

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 Post subject: Re: Possible future films?
PostPosted: April 14th, 2017, 8:28 pm 
Dunedain Ranger of Arnor
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Gandolorin wrote:
Well, the holders of the rights to everything but LoTR and TH, the Tolkien Trust (while CJRT lives) are unlikely to do so. We do not know what Guillermo del Toro's two-film "The Hobbit" would have looked like. Expanding TH into a trilogy was later decided upon by PJ & co. No question that this added padding that was not really necessary. But one thing I challenge any grumps about PJ's treatment of Third Age Middle-earth to do is to name a director (and the rest of the usual rabble that slinks about behind the scenes) who could have done a better job. I, for one, can think of no one else. Help us out, Dunedain Ranger of Arnor!


Hanasian wrote:
:-o Seriously???? :duh:

Well.... for starters, Ciaran Donnelly.....

Gandolorin wrote:
Checked him out on Wiki - doesn't tinkle the smallest bell (not his fault - I'm pretty badly out of the loop regarding the films of the last ten or more years, never mind any anglophone TV series).


... the point is one does not have to look very far to find someone who could do a better job than the screenplay and CGI crap PJ & Co gave us. ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: Possible future films?
PostPosted: April 14th, 2017, 9:22 pm 
Elf
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Hanasian wrote:
... the point is one does not have to look very far to find someone who could do a better job than the screenplay and CGI crap PJ & Co gave us. ;-)


If you were talking about the bloated Hobbit movies, I might agree with you. But there, I was pretty much expecting something along that line, as the Hobbit just does not have the substance for a movie trilogy - but no one was going to film it as a children's movie to fit the book. I took it as a PJ fanfic, with it's source still recognizable. :stab:

But as for as doing a better job, personally I can very much imagine many who would do a much worse job than PJ / Boyens / Walsh. Disney Studios and their ilk, for one. Or the morons who sent JRRT the first storyline proposed back in 1958, which made him go ballistic (I commented on them earlier in this thread, on 30 March). Those idiots hardly seem to have skimmed the book, PJ at least knew it well. :speech:

And as for CGI, I have (and I've been thinking, gotta see it again, this Easter weekend should be a good occasion to do so!) Ralph Bakshi's 1978 Rotoscoping technology semi-cartoon, which to my memory was pretty close to the book. Bakshi with more studio support and Weta Digital's CGI technology - that might fit the bill. About one thing there is no doubt in my mind at all - without CGI having progressed to the point it had for LoTR, it would not have been possible to film it, and I have no issues with the CGI of either LoTR or the Hobbit. One can overdo it, as Viggo Mortensen commented on the Hobbit. But I have read that the 48 fps and 3D sometimes made things worse in the Hobbit, me, with my diddly DVD player and 42-inch 2D TV thought the stuff was just great. :tv:

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 Post subject: Re: Possible future films?
PostPosted: April 16th, 2017, 3:38 am 
Dunedain Ranger of Arnor
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Gandolorin wrote:
But I have read that the 48 fps and 3D sometimes made things worse in the Hobbit, me, with my diddly DVD player and 42-inch 2D TV thought the stuff was just great. :tv:


Yes, when I first saw the Unexpected Journey, it was a a pre-release premiere screening I was invited to, and it was the 48fps 3D showing. It was more into the effects than the tale. Didn't watch it again until I caught it on a free-to-air TV station. It did suit the small screen better. When I saw the next two movies, also at a pre-screening premiere screening, it was in standard, and it was still crap on the big screen. I'm just glad I spent 0¢ seeing these films at theatres. The franchise made their money off me with Fellowship definitely, which I saw about 18 times at a theatre, and Two Towers and Return of the King, which I saw a few times each at the theatre. The best showing was the one the day before Return of the King was released. The theatre showed the extended editions of Fellowship and Two Towers with a decent intermission between them, and they brought in pizzas for the break before Return of the King, and right at midnight of the day of the official release, they showed Return of the King. Of course we were in costumes, and we would go across the street to the Red Robin for drinks between shows.
:duel: :drunk:

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 Post subject: Re: Possible future films?
PostPosted: April 16th, 2017, 11:02 am 
Elf
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Not I have not seen any of the pre-PJ versions of LoTR except for the Bakshi one. From what I've read about them, they were mostly felt to be disappointing. Not just that they were hampered by the limited technology available at the time, they also mostly seem not to have done justice to the story. If not as moronic as the 1958 trolls, then not much better, and all leaving much to be desired compared to Bakshi's version.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible future films?
PostPosted: November 3rd, 2017, 11:56 pm 
Dunedain Ranger of Arnor
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I didn't mind the Bakshi version for the most part. Although having Aragorn/Strider look like Robin Hood and Boromir as a faux-viking and Galadriel as a Disney princess (ok, that one wasn't so bad.. Galadriel is hot in my mind's eye from reading the books)... the story flow was close to being right on. Saw it at a theater when it first came out. Too bad they didn't make enough $$ to finish the tale Bakshi style. I think that was one of the reasons PJ insisted on making all three films in one go. And for the record, I thought that Rankin Bass Return of the King "finishing" and the Hobbit cartoon was awful.

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And Breaking News.... A
Lord of the Rings TV series???
It is interesting that it's the Tolkien Estate shopping this around. Please Bezos, don't let P.J. Boyens & Co near this!

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 Post subject: Re: Possible future films?
PostPosted: November 4th, 2017, 11:36 am 
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Hanasian wrote:
And Breaking News.... A Lord of the Rings TV series???
It is interesting that it's the Tolkien Estate shopping this around. Please Bezos, don't let P.J. Boyens & Co near this!

Amazon TV – whatever. Game of Thrones – never saw any of it. Wiki tells me that the book source is by George R. R. Martin, and that he originally envisioned it to be a trilogy (DUH!!!). The book series has now progressed to volume five of a projected seven (that’s HP territory). GoT the TV series (HBO) has seven seasons under its belt, with an eighth and final season planned for 2018 or 2019. Anyone seriously thinking of a similar run for LoTR will be heading for PJ’s mistreatment of the slim children’s book “The Hobbit” into a bloated trilogy, or worse.

But spontaneously, I can imagine much worse than that: JRRT meets Dallas!!! Lotho “Pimple” Sackville-Baggins as J.R. . . (*shriek!!!*); Lobelia in the Joan Collins role …

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 Post subject: Re: Possible future films?
PostPosted: November 4th, 2017, 5:42 pm 
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It's hard for me to believe that the Estate has done a complete turn around and wants more Tolkien "on film" or whatever, especially if Christopher Tolkien is still involved.

Anyway, we'll see as the story unfolds.


Last edited by Elthir on November 11th, 2017, 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible future films?
PostPosted: November 4th, 2017, 6:41 pm 
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Gandolorin wrote:
Hanasian wrote:
And Breaking News.... A Lord of the Rings TV series???
It is interesting that it's the Tolkien Estate shopping this around. Please Bezos, don't let P.J. Boyens & Co near this!

Amazon TV – whatever. Game of Thrones – never saw any of it. Wiki tells me that the book source is by George R. R. Martin, and that he originally envisioned it to be a trilogy (DUH!!!). The book series has now progressed to volume five of a projected seven (that’s HP territory). GoT the TV series (HBO) has seven seasons under its belt, with an eighth and final season planned for 2018 or 2019. Anyone seriously thinking of a similar run for LoTR will be heading for PJ’s mistreatment of the slim children’s book “The Hobbit” into a bloated trilogy, or worse.

But spontaneously, I can imagine much worse than that: JRRT meets Dallas!!! Lotho “Pimple” Sackville-Baggins as J.R. . . (*shriek!!!*); Lobelia in the Joan Collins role …

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There will be as many GoT seasons as there will be books, the author has worked closely with the creators of the show to make sure they've been able to follow the books, what has happened now with season 7 is that the last two books are not published but will be / are being written and the author has again worked with the creators of the show to give them the gist of what's to come meaning the books and the show will still sync up right. GoT is also one of the biggest and most expensive shows ever made and one particular episode cost as much as a full-length feature action film does. And it's making that profit back tenfold upon tenfold. So there's really no way of comparing this to the possibility of a LotR tv-show since that would, in fact, be three finished books made into who knows how many seasons.

I, for one, think it's one of the dumbest ideas ever. Some things do not need to get re-made, re-hashed, re-vamped, or whatever. LotR itself was a huge phenomena and made a massive impact on the world in all areas and really created a legacy. Why someone would think that can successfully now be turned into an actual tv-show is beyond me. It's not going to smash the original LotR, nor be as profitable. If they were thinking of using other source materials, sure, but the actual LotR trilogy I cannot ever see be anything but a failure.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible future films?
PostPosted: November 5th, 2017, 6:17 am 
Dunedain Ranger of Arnor
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Bellatrix wrote:
Some things do not need to get re-made, re-hashed, re-vamped, or whatever. LotR itself was a huge phenomena and made a massive impact on the world in all areas and really created a legacy. Why someone would think that can successfully now be turned into an actual tv-show is beyond me. It's not going to smash the original LotR, nor be as profitable. If they were thinking of using other source materials, sure, but the actual LotR trilogy I cannot ever see be anything but a failure.


I would have to disagree. A well written screenplay and solid directing that tries to stay true to the book story would be successful. As we are likely talking a subscription TV company making this, it will never be the $$ blockbuster that the PJ fanfic of Lord of the Rings was. Granted, there will be some revisionist story embellishment to flesh out the tale, and it could go well, or horribly wrong. I can't wait for the purist ragers to come out swinging, but then, so much has already suffered visual damage by the PJ fanfic movies, that maybe they don't have the fire inside this time.

So... we'll see I guess, if this develops (balrog) wings

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 Post subject: Re: Possible future films?
PostPosted: November 5th, 2017, 12:11 pm 
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I’m certain that CGI had become more capable in the almost 20 years since development of the LoTR films began. Weta Digital did quite a lot to expand those capabilities. What I’m interested in is how this has affected the price per minute (or whatever) of what we see on the screen. Both PJ trilogies had a massive initial outlay with the continuous live-action principle photography for all three films being shot in one long go (more than a year in both cases, as I recall). Besides some pickups with the live-action cast of each film, most of what needed to be done must then have been filling in the green screen backgrounds (with many other techniques besides CGI). Would doing the live-action stuff as CGI have been more expensive? Making CGI look reasonably life-like was an issue for a long time. I’m saying reasonably, as rendering a CGI version of any actor so that the audience would not be able to tell it from live-action shooting (close-ups very much so) is probably still way off. But I’d be fine with a CGI version that looks reasonably realistic – say an upgraded version of the 2007 motion-capture “Beowulf”, the real-life characters like Anthony Hopkins who were those motion-captured being quite recognizable.

If the price per minute of such technology and the rest of CGI drops (has dropped?) significantly enough, the initial outlay for the films might drop appreciably – and could be limited to each film at a time, seriously reducing risks for investors. And the – films, TV series, whatever – would not have to be massive blockbusters to recoup outlays; just think what would have happened to PJ’s moviemaking career had Fellowship bombed! Things like George Romero’s 1968 “Night of the Living Dead”, completed on a $114,000 budget and grossing $30,000,000 world-wide are like investing in a dinky little company with little promise in the early 1970s, called Microsoft. Might as well play lottery, the chances of hitting the jackpot are comparable. But too often, the suits in the film and TV industry try desperately to appeal to the lowest – 5%? 1%? – of what they consider to be the potential audience. And none of them are ever going to admit to the arrogance of their never-publicly-stated opinion of that segment’s intelligence – most likely hovering in amoeba territory. The effect that annoys me is that at least some parts of the end product then being shown on some sort of screen are excruciatingly dumb – and I’m fairly sure the maligned 5 or 1% mostly see it the same way.

Dang. Part of this would be more at home in the Rant thread. Ah, well …

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