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 Post subject: I've always wondered...
PostPosted: January 18th, 2009, 8:47 am 
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I've seen the movies but there's a question that has stolling within me for months ok here it comes:

How are orcs, goblins and uruks made. I've heard the are elfs and reawaken or something but i wanna know more and what do the differenet types of orcs have to do with each other, Are they immortal in age just like elfs or?

Anyways i hope you guys have a bigger knowledge than me.
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PostPosted: January 18th, 2009, 1:45 pm 
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Well, the orcs were original elves captured by Melkor (the dark vala) in the First Age and tortured, corrupted, mutilated into the race of orcs. In the Silmarillion it says they were made as a mockery of the elves and of Ilúvatar's creation.
Same explanation is given in The Two Towers by Saruman when he meets his Uruk-hai captain and we learn that the Uruk-hai are made much in the same way - a perfection of the orc.
I think we discussed this in another threads on orcs, but I think orcs (and uruk-hai) must have a rather long life... almost like the immortality of the elves, but where the elves is a truly immortal race orcs might have lost that trait because of the treatment the race went through.

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PostPosted: January 18th, 2009, 1:45 pm 
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Orcs were originally Elves, yes. I have heard that they were tortured, and I've also heard that they were twisted, maimed, and other ugly things *shudders* before they became Orcs.

I believe that goblins and Orcs are the same thing, just expressed differently, as far as Tolkien and LotR go...

Uruk-Hai are a cross between Orcs and Men :blink: which is terrible. "There is no curse in Entish, Elvish, or all the tongues of Men strong enough for this treachery!" They are larger and stronger than Orcs....

Uruk is Orcish for Orc; Uruk-Hai are the rebel Orcs from Isengaurd.

I doubt Orcs retain the Elvish immortality; i think they may live long if given the chance but i seriously doubt the actual forever-ness of it... Besides, most of them die in battle at the hands of Aragorn and the rest of all the good guys!!! WHOOP!

Orcs were made by Morgoth in mockery of Elves, and trolls in mockery of Ents. BUT ENTS ARE MUCH STRONGER! WHOOP!

Lol. I did not know i knew this much about Orcs alone. :blink: I am kind of scaring myself :)...

Hope this helped!

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PostPosted: January 18th, 2009, 1:53 pm 
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I'm pretty sure it's a debated topic... in the Silmarillion, it's not very specific about it. Morgoth either literally made them in mockery of the Elves but as a whole new creation (which I don't actually think he's allowed to do or has the ability to do) or tortured the captured Elves and created these Orcs out of the mutilated and twisted Elves and called that mockery. I think the latter one makes the most sense to me.

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PostPosted: January 18th, 2009, 2:15 pm 
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I second Gladriel's post - and we posted at the same time! :-)

I have a few additions to our posts!
Orcs don't like sunlight, the Uruk-hai don't mind - great improvement for warfare!

I also think goblins are a kind of orc, but smaller.

And true, orcs or Uruk-hai never live long... because they get slaughtered! Rawr!

A comment to Haldir's post.
I think Morgoth made the elves in mockery, because he did not have the actual ability to create anything, only Ilúvatar can create.. sorta from scratch, that is create out of nothing.
Aulë wanted so badly to make the dwarves but he was only allowed to go on because Ilúvatar felt sorry for Aulë and his creation and agreed to give them life.

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PostPosted: January 18th, 2009, 3:23 pm 
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There are actually several possible theories for the origins of orcs with the corrupted elves being the main one as that was the one published in the Silmarillion.
Their wikipedia article explains it better then I could:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orc_(Middle-earth)

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PostPosted: January 18th, 2009, 4:04 pm 
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Well anyways thanks for the the part of evil valar and stuff is what i wanted to hear^^.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: January 18th, 2009, 6:37 pm 
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Eä wrote:
I think Morgoth made the elves in mockery, because he did not have the actual ability to create anything, only Ilúvatar can create.. sorta from scratch, that is create out of nothing.

Yup, that's why I found the latter one that I mentioned to be more plausible.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: January 18th, 2009, 8:35 pm 
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Eä wrote:
I second Gladriel's post - and we posted at the same time! :-)


Yay! Eä seconded me! I is excited!!! Yeah, sorry, this is not related to the topic (sorries!!!) but that made me really happy! :) :) lol...

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PostPosted: January 19th, 2009, 1:38 pm 
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You're velcome, Iluvatar. Thanks for starting the topic, it's nice to he helpful, so when there is actually something I know... :-)

Lol, Gladriel... of course I agree with you. It was a very informative post and after all you posted pretty much the same as I. :P
And welcome by the way, I hope you have a good time here on A-U. :hug:

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