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 Post subject: Re: Possible future films?
PostPosted: April 2nd, 2014, 3:14 pm 
Gondorian
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So much to read!...

Elthir wrote:
Well it's not only those who study the books who dislike the films. And as far as succeeded -- in what sense: that they made a lot of cash for example? We can list plenty of films that do that.

Not only. But it is easy to understand: the more people like the film, the more it earns. And also, the more people like and recommend it to others, the more people have a chance to get familiar with Tolkien's works. And this is what really matters, isn't it?
Elthir wrote:
Even if so, I don't see why Christopher Tolkien should not be allowed to give his honest opinion of the films.

Please... I never said he cannot give his opinion. What I said (maybe not directly, but it's easy to deduce) is that I just don’t understand his great indignation at films. There's a difference between not agreeing with someone and forbidding them to say what they think.
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Plus, do you know the number of people who saw the films and will now never read the books because they think they know the story? This can't be known.
Or do you know the number of those who bought the books but didn't like them because they were unlike the films?

Seriously? You know, from what I noticed simply browsing through some Tolkien forums, I sometimes happen upon such topics in style of "how did you find Tolkien books", "when did you start liking/reading the books" etc, and in honesty I can tell you that a considerable majority of fans stated they found out about Tolkien and read the books because of PJ's films.

I've always thought that the best what can happen to an author is dissemination of their work. The world has changed and today a film adaptation is a really good way to do that. Particularly when the film is made by a person who is also a fan and has great respect for the author. PJ didn't make a parody after all.

Despite my respect for Ch.Tolkien, this is why I don't understand his attitude towards the films, that they so disgraced the books so it would be better if they never existed at all. You may think the same, yet do you really believe that JRR Tolkien would have so much (like his son) denounced his book's adaptation, which took an interest in Middle-earth millions of people?

Lembas wrote:
On another subject: I've been studying copyright law recently, for work. I'm not entirely clued up yet, but from what I've been reading I think Copyright on published work expires between 50-100 years after the death of the author. So in theory, if Christopher Tolkien dropped dead today, we could see a film of the Silmarillion as early as 2064! :lol:

Interesting. BUt I presume before he dies he'll do everything to protect his father's works so that no film company would put their hands on them.

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At the same time, seeing someone else adapting a work that's important to you must be extremely difficult- a lot of recent successful book to film adaptations have had the authors involved in some way. I'm sure Christopher Tolkien has an insight and perception of his father's work that is far more in depth and detailed than anyone else's, which would naturally make him more sensitive to changes. However, I think he is more opposed to his father's work being commercialised rather than mis-represented.

Hm, perhaps. And, after all, he is an old man already and it's hard to demand an enthusiasm from him to today's Hollywood... But this is how the world has changed and we just should face this fact. It actually reminds me of LotR, where Tolkien probably tried to express his discontent with the world being 'mechanised'...

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 Post subject: Re: Possible future films?
PostPosted: April 2nd, 2014, 6:54 pm 
Gondorian
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Nirielle wrote:
Not only. But it is easy to understand: the more people like the film, the more it earns.


Okay, and the more people like Ace Ventura Pet Detective, just for example, the more it earns. Yes, that's 'success' in some measure, and a lot of films can claim to be a success in that sense.

Quote:
And also, the more people like and recommend it to others, the more people have a chance to get familiar with Tolkien's works. And this is what really matters, isn't it?


But they don't necessarily get familiar with Tolkien's works by watching the films -- from the perspective of someone who thinks the films are largely unfaithful to the books. I mean, not outside of a general sense...

... and a given person won't necessarily read the books after seeing the films; and we can't easily know how many will not like the books because they expected something more like the films.

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Please... I never said he cannot give his opinion. What I said (maybe not directly, but it's easy to deduce) is that I just don’t understand his great indignation at films. There's a difference between not agreeing with someone and forbidding them to say what they think.


I understand the difference but the original impression I got from the statement I quoted [and responded to] was that you were annoyed that CJRT even gave his opinion of 'awful' when he should have rather thought more about what you think these movies did for him or the Estate.

If you didn't intend that, so be it, and it seems we agree: Christopher Tolkien has the right to give his honest opinion of the films despite that some people will be lead to the books from the films.


Quote:
Seriously? You know, from what I noticed simply browsing through some Tolkien forums, I sometimes happen upon such topics in style of "how did you find Tolkien books", "when did you start liking/reading the books" etc, and in honesty I can tell you that a considerable majority of fans stated they found out about Tolkien and read the books because of PJ's films.


Yes seriously, as what you are doing here is pointing to some people, those people who actually join web sites to chat about Tolkien and came to the books from the films.

However you don't, and can't know the potential numbers of the people I described, and without those even potential numbers this matter of 'bringing people to the books' is being simplified in my opinion. Add to that that we can't know how many of the people who did come to the books from the films might have found the books in any case.

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I've always thought that the best what can happen to an author is dissemination of their work. The world has changed and today a film adaptation is a really good way to do that. Particularly when the film is made by a person who is also a fan and has great respect for the author. PJ didn't make a parody after all.


Well it would be someone's opinion in the first place that Jackson illustrated great respect for the author and that his films disseminate a true enough picture of Tolkien's work. No problem, it's an opinion; but I think plenty of people will agree with the statement that Jackson didn't make a parody, but yet still disagree with you about the films in general.

Quote:
Despite my respect for Ch.Tolkien, this is why I don't understand his attitude towards the films, that they so disgraced the books so it would be better if they never existed at all. You may think the same, yet do you really believe that JRR Tolkien would have so much (like his son) denounced his book's adaptation, which took an interest in Middle-earth millions of people?


I believe Tolkien would have had a notably long list of negative comments. Obviously that's based on my opinion of these films...

... but you asked ;-)


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 Post subject: Re: Possible future films?
PostPosted: April 5th, 2014, 4:31 pm 
Gondorian
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Okay, and the more people like Ace Ventura Pet Detective, just for example, the more it earns. Yes, that's 'success' in some measure, and a lot of films can claim to be a success in that sense.

And is there something wrong in it? No matter if it's a fantasy film or comedy or horror, what I said is real. And by success I meant not only money because it's not the most important, but mainly just new fans.
Quote:
But they don't necessarily get familiar with Tolkien's works by watching the films -- from the perspective of someone who thinks the films are largely unfaithful to the books. I mean, not outside of a general sense...
... and a given person won't necessarily read the books after seeing the films; and we can't easily know how many will not like the books because they expected something more like the films.

By watching them, people they get to know there's a book which was its basis. If they enjoy the film, they're more interested in reading the book. It is natural that not literally everyone decides to do that after watching, but believe there're people whom these films encouraged to read and (if they liked them) become fans.
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Yes seriously, as what you are doing here is pointing to some people, those people who actually join web sites to chat about Tolkien and came to the books from the films.

However you don't, and can't know the potential numbers of the people I described, and without those even potential numbers this matter of 'bringing people to the books' is being simplified in my opinion. Add to that that we can't know how many of the people who did come to the books from the films might have found the books in any case.

I really don't get why you need to know the number of those people. No-one can know that. I said what I noticed, and it's a fact. If saying "majority" means nothing for you, then it's not my problem.

You can easily find out about the book sales after the films premiere, and any old source would tell you that sales of the books in only the UK increased 1000% after the films came out. The copies numbered millions. Alas, it looks like you prefer to turn a blind eye to this fact, of course only because all this happened due to the films you sooo detest.

Everyone has their own mind and if they want to read the books – they will. And, if they like them – brilliant, if not – ok, too bad. But this simply shows your ignorance if you think that nothing has changed since the films premiere, that the Tolkien fanbase is still the same size it was before the films release (since you even need numbers because otherwise you cannot believe that).
Quote:
Well it would be someone's opinion in the first place that Jackson illustrated great respect for the author and that his films disseminate a true enough picture of Tolkien's work. No problem, it's an opinion; but I think plenty of people will agree with the statement that Jackson didn't make a parody, but yet still disagree with you about the films in general.

"and that his films disseminate a true enough picture of Tolkien's work." No idea where did you take it from, but I didn't say, nor even mean that. So, since you misunderstood - I meant that PJ's films help to disseminate Tolkien's books. I've already said earlier that I'm aware the films have things I didn't like too. I'm not a person who sees only positives and perceives them as a perfect adaptation in relation to the book. I once read somewhere on the net something like (about LotR films) "If you want to see these films in higher quality – read the book". Believe or not, but I totally agree with that.
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I believe Tolkien would have had a notably long list of negative comments. Obviously that's based on my opinion of these films...

... but you asked ;-)

Oh suuure, and he would've been literally furious with the fact these films caused that many people bought and read his books. And Tolkien Estate headed by Ch.Tolkien are now surely mad too that they get money from it. Sigh... *rolls eyes*

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 Post subject: Re: Possible future films?
PostPosted: April 6th, 2014, 11:48 am 
Gondorian
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Nirielle wrote:
And is there something wrong in it? No matter if it's a fantasy film or comedy or horror, what I said is real. And by success I meant not only money because it's not the most important, but mainly just new fans.


No one said there was anything wrong with it, but 'success' in this respect [and not that you said otherwise] doesn't mean the films are necessarily faithful to the books, or necessarily even good films from a given person's perspective, or faithful enough from Christopher Tolkien's perspective.

:shrug:

Quote:
I really don't get why you need to know the number of those people. No-one can know that. I said what I noticed, and it's a fact. If saying "majority" means nothing for you, then it's not my problem.


I'm merely pointing out that if you have found a 'majority' it's a majority of those who come to Tolkien chat sites in the first place, and then a majority of people who decided to respond in a given thread -- with these observations I don't mean that books sales haven't increased in general, but they raise other considerations with respect to employing web threads as evidence.

And of course we can't know the number of people who will now never read the books because they saw the films, or the number of those who will buy the books and not like them because they are not enough like the films, or the number of people who would have found the books anyway -- but my point is that we have to acknowledge the potential numbers here, or at least acknowledge these things as real factors [and still not the only factors] with respect to the larger argument.

Quote:
You can easily find out about the book sales after the films premiere, and any old source would tell you that sales of the books in only the UK increased 1000% after the films came out. The copies numbered millions. Alas, it looks like you prefer to turn a blind eye to this fact, of course only because all this happened due to the films you sooo detest.


I haven't turned a blind eye to increased sales. Nor did I say I 'detest' the films incidentally -- that's your word despite that I have plenty of negative criticisms for Jackson's films.

Quote:
Everyone has their own mind and if they want to read the books – they will. And, if they like them – brilliant, if not – ok, too bad. But this simply shows your ignorance if you think that nothing has changed since the films premiere, that the Tolkien fanbase is still the same size it was before the films release (since you even need numbers because otherwise you cannot believe that).


I haven't said that nothing has changed since the films came out, nor that I think the fanbase is still the same size and so on -- my argument was about [what I think is] simplification within the context of the larger matter of 'bringing people to the books.'

Quote:
"and that his films disseminate a true enough picture of Tolkien's work." No idea where did you take it from, but I didn't say, nor even mean that. So, since you misunderstood - I meant that PJ's films help to disseminate Tolkien's books.


Well you didn't say 'help' disseminate in the post I responded to. And in any case I didn't misunderstand that you were speaking generally in the first sentence, which is why I intentionally began with 'Well it would be someone's opinion in the first place...' so that I could make my own point or points.

For example you still arguably suggested that Peter Jackson is this fan who has great respect for the books [with your statement about respect and then immediately noting Jackson specifically with your next 'parody' remark], so I made my own point that even if so, it's simply not a given, to everyone, that he illustrated this in his films.


And a far better film [subjective as that is], as well as a far better film with respect to being faithful to its source, could have helped disseminate Tolkien's books. Actually even a worse film could have helped in that regard.

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Oh suuure, and he would've been literally furious with the fact these films caused that many people bought and read his books. And Tolkien Estate headed by Ch.Tolkien are now surely mad too that they get money from it. Sigh... *rolls eyes*


He easily might have had a long list, as Tolkien would be aware of media colonization and that there is more to the matter here than increased sales.


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 Post subject: Re: Possible future films?
PostPosted: April 12th, 2014, 3:44 pm 
Gondorian
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No one said there was anything wrong with it, but 'success' in this respect [and not that you said otherwise] doesn't mean the films are necessarily faithful to the books, or necessarily even good films from a given person's perspective, or faithful enough from Christopher Tolkien's perspective.

Since there's nothing wrong I don't understand your mention of Ace Ventura (it's not even based on a book just to compare with LotR)...
Because it's an adaptation, which means changes can happen in it. But ok, you may treat Ch.Tolkien as a saint whose word is an absolute truth. Your business.
Quote:
And of course we can't know the number of people who will now never read the books because they saw the films, or the number of those who will buy the books and not like them because they are not enough like the films, or the number of people who would have found the books anyway -- but my point is that we have to acknowledge the potential numbers here, or at least acknowledge these things as real factors [and still not the only factors] with respect to the larger argument.

If you want you can search and search for these "potential numbers", if you really need them so much. I've already said what I wanted, I don't like repeating myself.
Quote:
For example you still arguably suggested that Peter Jackson is this fan who has great respect for the books [with your statement about respect and then immediately noting Jackson specifically with your next 'parody' remark], so I made my own point that even if so, it's simply not a given, to everyone, that he illustrated this in his films.

Then read the paragraph where I used a word "parody" once again, and you'll know why I put it there. To me PJ's films do not look like a parody.
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And a far better film [subjective as that is], as well as a far better film with respect to being faithful to its source, could have helped disseminate Tolkien's books. Actually even a worse film could have helped in that regard.

Of course they'd have helped as well, especially if they were even better. But they are as they are and we cannot change it.

At any rate, what I find ridiculous (and perhaps which is the main reason of our exchange of views here) is that some people treat the films almost as a pure evil on Tolkien's book and still prefer to stay unaware of positive effects of their existence.
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He easily might have had a long list, as Tolkien would be aware of media colonization and that there is more to the matter here than increased sales.

Yes, like new fans of his books, what I'm keep repeating anyway.
Or he might have even helped with screenplay by simply giving suggestions on what is acceptable and what isn't. We'll never know though.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible future films?
PostPosted: April 14th, 2014, 8:39 am 
Gondorian
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Because it's an adaptation, which means changes can happen in it. But ok, you may treat Ch.Tolkien as a saint whose word is an absolute truth. Your business.


Of course 'changes can happen' in an adaptation -- that's just another very general, all agreed upon truth. And no where do I say CJRT is a saint whose 'word is an absolute truth' by the way.

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If you want you can search and search for these "potential numbers", if you really need them so much. I've already said what I wanted, I don't like repeating myself.


Why would I search for numbers that, as I already said, we can't know? Rather I acknowledge the reality of these factors, which goes to my point about simplification.

Quote:
At any rate, what I find ridiculous (and perhaps which is the main reason of our exchange of views here) is that some people treat the films almost as a pure evil on Tolkien's book and still prefer to stay unaware of positive effects of their existence.


But who are these people who 'prefer to stay unaware' of their positive effects? Not me. Christopher Tolkien? I'm not sure any such people actually exist, just like the so called purists who wanted 'everything' from the books to be in the films...

... or if such people exist they are rare enough as far as my experience goes ;-)


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 Post subject: Re: Possible future films?
PostPosted: April 21st, 2014, 2:41 pm 
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Of course 'changes can happen' in an adaptation -- that's just another very general, all agreed upon truth. And no where do I say CJRT is a saint whose 'word is an absolute truth' by the way.

You didn't need to say it. All you say about him and the way you soo defend him from any negative opinions of mine makes me think like that.
Quote:
But who are these people who 'prefer to stay unaware' of their positive effects? Not me. Christopher Tolkien? I'm not sure any such people actually exist, just like the so called purists who wanted 'everything' from the books to be in the films...

... or if such people exist they are rare enough as far as my experience goes ;-)

Oh, I saw comments which generally meant it would be better for Tolkien's works if these films never existed. I was sure you're one of such people who really think that. Maybe Ch.Tolkien is one of them, don't know but I've never really heard him saying anything good about it, I don't mean the films themselves anymore since he dislikes them, but like I said, about any positive effect that influenced Tolkien fans because of the films.
And I think carrying on this discussion is kinda pointless... ;]

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 Post subject: Re: Possible future films?
PostPosted: April 22nd, 2014, 11:11 am 
Gondorian
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Nirielle wrote:
You didn't need to say it. All you say about him and the way you soo defend him from any negative opinions of mine makes me think like that.


In any case I prefer what I say to your characterizations of 'saint' and 'absolute truth'. For the general record, I disagree with Christopher Tolkien about certain things.

Quote:
Galin wrote: But who are these people who 'prefer to stay unaware' of their positive effects? Not me. Christopher Tolkien? I'm not sure any such people actually exist, just like the so called purists who wanted 'everything' from the books to be in the films...

... or if such people exist they are rare enough as far as my experience goes ;-)

Nirielle responded: Oh, I saw comments which generally meant it would be better for Tolkien's works if these films never existed. I was sure you're one of such people who really think that.


I stand by what I actually said in the thread, and there is no one I know who: '... [some people] treat the films almost as a pure evil on Tolkien's book and still prefer to stay unaware of positive effects of their existence.'... which is what you said, exactly.

Rather my guess is that your 'some people' are well aware that the films brought new fans to the books for instance, but they know that there are multiple considerations when it comes to media colonization.

Quote:
Maybe Ch.Tolkien is one of them, don't know but I've never really heard him saying anything good about it, I don't mean the films themselves anymore since he dislikes them, but like I said, about any positive effect that influenced Tolkien fans because of the films.


With respect to the statement that the films bring new fans to the books, I would expect Christopher Tolkien to not only be aware of that one aspect [and look closely at it], but weigh it along with other important factors, even were he to comment on it specifically.

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And I think carrying on this discussion is kinda pointless... ;]


Well your latest post is carrying on this discussion. If you don't want to carry on from here that's up to you :)


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 Post subject: Re: Possible future films?
PostPosted: April 29th, 2014, 2:04 pm 
Gondorian
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For the general record, I disagree with Christopher Tolkien about certain things.

I'm in shock! ;p

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...but they know that there are multiple considerations when it comes to media colonization.

It usually happens with almost everything that succeeds. A book and a film are separated thing and my opinion is that the film never hurts/ruins the book. What we can see in the films is nothing that can suddenly change in the book. The book will always remain the same, intact.

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Well your latest post is carrying on this discussion. If you don't want to carry on from here that's up to you :)

Heh, I thought if I didn't reply at all it'd be a bit impolite somehow. But ok, know you don't have to reply me anymore. Or you can just answer my questions I asked in the first post so that it'd be less off-topic ;]

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 Post subject: Re: Possible future films?
PostPosted: May 1st, 2014, 1:04 pm 
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Nirielle wrote:
(...) A book and a film are separated thing and my opinion is that the film never hurts/ruins the book. What we can see in the films is nothing that can suddenly change in the book. The book will always remain the same, intact.


That's basically what Tolkien's publisher said to Tolkien too :) But not all agree it is necessarily so.

Obviously as a purely physical fact the book remains the same, but then we have the consideration of interpretation: the question of a given person being wholly unaffected, or not, by the film when reading the books; especially if the film is loved and seen multiple times before reading the books.

Christopher Tolkien has surely heard this, or if not, I would guess he's thought about the notion himself: the books remain inviolate. But do they, or do they always or necessarily remain inviolate, in all ways?

And in any case media colonization can still occur [not that you said otherwise about that]. The Wizard of Oz is still on bookshelves for example, even if the Judy Garland film version arguably still owns the cowardly lion's share of Oz... pun intended.

The interpretation consideration is another matter that can't be easily looked at and broken down of course, but it remains another factor here nonetheless, in my opinion anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Possible future films?
PostPosted: May 5th, 2014, 8:30 am 
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The book remains the same, but of course in a physical form. It is always up to us whether it's the same in our imagination. We ourselves arrange the picture of the plot in our minds, and as many people as the pictures. For example, when I read LotR or another book which has its film adaptation, I not always imagine some scenes exactly the same as they look in the film, I've got my own image of them. Yet it doesn't change my view of the film, if it's good.

What some people dislike about the film adaptations is just the different look of things. There's no denying the film can give us a good picture which we may like but it's still only one picture. That's why the film will never outdo the book.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible future films?
PostPosted: May 5th, 2014, 3:46 pm 
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In my opinon it's not always up to the person because films affect people in ways they might not even realize. Whether a given film adaptation is thought to be great, good, or poor as an adaptation [not as a film wholly divorced from its source], I am not nearly the first person, nor the only person, to suggest that people read the book before seeing a film.

And in my opinion it's about much more than arranging the picture of the plot.


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 Post subject: Re: Possible future films?
PostPosted: March 29th, 2017, 1:32 am 
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Damn! I missed a good one a few years back :lol:

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Possible future films?


I've mixed feelings about this. Would I like to see future films? Well, yes, as long as PJ Boyens & Co. has nothing to do with them,

A remake of the Trilogy with a different director and a better screenplay would be good.


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 Post subject: Re: Possible future films?
PostPosted: March 29th, 2017, 9:06 pm 
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There is written proof of JRRT's disapproval of at least one treatment for a proposed LoTR film, see letter 210 in "The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien" by Humphrey Carpenter. JRRT writes to Forrest J. Ackerman in apparently June 1958 (!), and from what he describes the storyline to be, I'm very happy this mess of a movie never got made. Sounds like a clone of Disney's 1953 Peter Pan, Tinker Bell with Eagles or so.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible future films?
PostPosted: March 30th, 2017, 8:33 am 
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For myself, I'm well enough convinced that Tolkien, while at first open to selling the film rights for "cash or kudos", later didn't really want to [and seeing Z's film treatment arguably didn't help]... except that later JRRT found himself in a tax pickle, needed the cash, and had Rayner Unwin reminding him of his earlier "cash or kudos" with Stanley Unwin.

"Stanley U. and I have agreed on our policy: Art or Cash. Either very profitable terms indeed; or absolute author's veto on objectionable features or alterations." JRRT 1957

The picture painted by the very detailed Chronology of Hammond and Scull is that Tolkien made a deal with Stanley Unwin well before 1969 [see also Tolkien's reaction to the "Zimmerman Treatment" now noted by Gandolorin in the thread]. And in 1961 Rayner reminded Tolkien of the policy he had agreed to with Stanley Unwin: cash or Kudos (source Hammond and Scull) when Rembrandt Films became interested in cartoon films of the Hobbit. Tolkien wrote to Raynor:

"I clearly understand that one must either turn the matter down or put up with many objectionable things that they are sure to perpetrate in their production. I am sure advice or argument would be quite unavailing (except to make them throw the whole thing up) and I have no time for either. In any case I do not feel so deeply about The Hobbit; and anyway I am now mainly dependent for my support on my earnings as an author I feel justified in sinking my feelings in return for cash." JRRT

Keeping in mind here, it's still 1961-ish.

In September 1967 Rayner Unwin sent Tolkien various letters from their American agent, a Mr. Swanson: 'Swanson has also written about an offer for film rights of the Lord of the Rings.' (H&S). In November, Rayner, having just returned from the United States, writes to Tolkien, stating that he thinks 'agreement is close with United Artists for the Lord of the Rings film rights.'

In 1969 (near the rumors of the Beatles and a film surfaced) Rayner Unwin again reminded Tolkien of their agreement (Hammond and Scull): that if a film brings cash, they will waive any kudos. He points out to Tolkien that whatever the film is like "the book remains inviolable and that is the main thing. What they do with the property in other media will, I regret to say, be entirely their responsibility from an aesthetic point of view, will only vary in degrees between bad at best and execrable at the worst."

Even Rayner Unwin employed this "book remains inviolable" bit! Yes it does... again, just ask the author of The Wizard of Oz how that goes.

OK, negotiations had begun in 1967. As I read things here, the agreement in the 1950s was in play, and A&U and Swanson were basically handling things; and the deal was finally ready in 1969. But I note too, what was happening around this time, with respect to Tolkien's need for cash. William Hicklin observes:

Quote:
The tax bill story has been repeated often in the press- and although the press is notoriously unreliable on these things, I believe the tax bill line appeared in the very accurate story printed in 2001 in The Financial Times, which for the first time (TMK) gave the correct cash consideration and the fact that there were residuals.

The problem which afflicted Tolkien in the late 1960's was that the Ballantine paperbacks and ensuing Tolkien Craze generated royalties vastly beyond anything he had anticipated even in 1962- and *suddenly* exposed him to Surtax. (The Inland Revenue, at least back then, had a nasty habit of 'surprising' you with a bill- calculated on an accrual, not a cash, basis). There was also the fact that Tolkien had been forced in 1968 to make an unplanned move to Bournemouth and buy a very expensive house, which probably consumed most of his liquid cash.


Anyway, I think events conspired against Tolkien to sell the film rights. I don't think he really wanted to sell by the later 1960s [at least]... again, not that anyone said otherwise, but around the web I've seen the simple fact that Tolkien did sell used as a stick to hit Christopher Tolkien's position.

Perhaps Rayner Unwin had a bigger influence in this than has been talked about [as far as I'm aware, anyway], although it's probably too much water under the bridge to point the finger of blame his way -- that is, if blame is what one is inclined to here; as many would no doubt cheer Rayner if he actually had a notable role that ultimately, decades later, led to Jackson's films --

... especially when the tax man is arguably the easier target ;-)


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 Post subject: Re: Possible future films?
PostPosted: March 30th, 2017, 1:06 pm 
Elf
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Elthir wrote:
The picture painted by the very detailed Chronology of Hammond and Scull ...

This must be one of the two books comprising the H&S "J.R.R. Tolkien Companion and Guide", right?

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