Rules      FAQ       Register        Login
It is currently July 3rd, 2020, 10:02 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 68 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Immortality and Mortality
PostPosted: January 29th, 2006, 6:50 pm 


I don't get the how an elf becomes mortal. Take Arwen for instance, like, she can't just say,"i choose a mortal life" and then all of a sudden become mortal, can she? Must she go through a process of praying or something like that?


Top
                  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: January 30th, 2006, 1:07 am 
Vala
Vala
User avatar

Joined: 03 June 2005
Posts: 5602
Location: Canada
Country: Canada (ca)

Offline
Hmmm, I'm confused about this too. At what point does she become mortal?

_________________
Proud Member of the The Evilishy Nazgûl Alliance for World Domination
{Beri}


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: January 31st, 2006, 5:54 am 


I'd like to know that too.


Top
                  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: January 31st, 2006, 12:02 pm 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: 04 June 2005
Posts: 12592
Gender: Female

Offline
She goes to the Mortality office and files an application form. Then after a bunch of bureaucracy and paper work she'll recieve a letter in the mail box saying that her ticket for Valinor sealines has been cancelled.

*looks around*
Did I succeed in hiding the fact that I don't know?We talked about immortality on the old forum too and Arien Elensar came up with a pretty good answer to that I think. Could anyone get her?

In the meantime let me come up with my opinion on this. From the moment Arwen confirms the decision in her heart she will forever have turned her back to her immortal life and her kin, and the Valar will hold her to her word. Being mortal means aging and she will slowly begin to wither and fade. Her soul and body will be exposed to cold and disease, even though she will still have a stronger er... 'life force' than others and she will be able to live longer than other humans.
That's just my guess... :angel:

_________________
>>Be the change you wish to see in the world<<
Image

Image
Banner credit: Shadowcat & Nurrantiel Mashiara


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: January 31st, 2006, 8:15 pm 
Dwarf
Dwarf
User avatar

Joined: 24 January 2006
Posts: 56
Location: Brazil

Offline
I believe she just have to choose but the real difference only happens whe she actually decides to die. Until she decides to die, she's an elf like any other, but when she says to herself "now it's time for me to leave", the death itself is different, 'cause instead of going to Valinor, she just "disappears" and goes to that place men go when they die (and in the future they will be on Eru's side).
I'm not sure.. this is just what I have understood when I read...
:)


Top
 Profile       WWW            
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: January 31st, 2006, 9:05 pm 
Ringwraith
Ringwraith

Joined: 15 January 2006
Posts: 1543
Location: somewhere

Offline
full-blood elves cant choose to be mortal, only peredhils can (half-bloods). elrond and his brother, elros, were peredhils because they were direct descendants of beren and luthien. So the valar gave the peredhils a choice: to stay immortal, or to give up their immortality. Elros became the Numenorian king, and so decided to give up his immortality for his people. Elrond, however, decided that he wanted to be immortal. Since Arwen is Elrond's daughter, she is also a direct descendant of Beren and Luthien, and so she can choose to become a mortal. And she did :-D

And luthien could give up her immortality because she was half-elf, half maia :)

_________________
<center>
Thinking of new sig set...


Last edited by Meltithenniel on January 31st, 2006, 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: January 31st, 2006, 9:07 pm 
Hobbit
Hobbit
User avatar

Joined: 18 January 2006
Posts: 35
Location: UK

Offline
OneRingVision 2007 UK

"Put You Passion Into Motion"

http://www.theoneringvision.com


Last edited by OneRingVision on March 19th, 2006, 2:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile       WWW            
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: January 31st, 2006, 9:17 pm 
Ringwraith
Ringwraith

Joined: 15 January 2006
Posts: 1543
Location: somewhere

Offline
But Earendil (Elrond's father) was a half elf, which meant the peredhil lineage went back a lot further to his grandparents :) so i hope that answers your question elia :) :bye2:

_________________
<center>
Thinking of new sig set...


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: February 1st, 2006, 10:56 am 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: 04 June 2005
Posts: 12592
Gender: Female

Offline
*cheers for Meltithenniel and Fleur*
Now I remember, thank you both! :angel:

_________________
>>Be the change you wish to see in the world<<
Image

Image
Banner credit: Shadowcat & Nurrantiel Mashiara


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: February 1st, 2006, 2:28 pm 
Hobbit
Hobbit
User avatar

Joined: 18 January 2006
Posts: 35
Location: UK

Offline
OneRingVision 2007 UK

"Put You Passion Into Motion"

http://www.theoneringvision.com

_________________
Image

<a href="http://theoneringvision.com/forum/index.php">
<img src="http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f356/fleurdelysinuk/Forum_Banner.gif" /></a>

www.theoneringvision.com


Last edited by OneRingVision on March 19th, 2006, 2:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile       WWW            
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: February 2nd, 2006, 4:47 am 
Ringwraith
Ringwraith

Joined: 15 January 2006
Posts: 1543
Location: somewhere

Offline
^ its okay, fleur, it happens to me all the time it gets on my nerves so much... but you're right... arwen and aragorn are related which is a bit sick but at least its a distant relation :P i was looking at the back of my silmarillion book which has family trees and i was like "... ew."

im glad we could help el :)

_________________
<center>
Thinking of new sig set...


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: February 3rd, 2006, 4:26 am 


lol i appreciate your answers and i understand part of it. Like does she or and half elf tell their parents or announce it to the community to aprrove the mortality he/she has taken?


Top
                  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: February 6th, 2006, 2:23 am 
Elf
Elf
User avatar

Joined: 04 June 2005
Posts: 1388
Location: California

Offline
I think you guys are going around in circles a bit. ;) Instead of figuring out "how" she loses her immortality, you all are repeating why:

First off, only a half-elf can choose to become mortal or immortal. Luthien began that choice for her desendents (Arwen is a descendent of Luthien Tinuviel) with her twist of fate, which will take to long to explain here. :blush: Tolkien never specifed "how" a half-elf may lose there immortality, but for Arwen; it is tied to her father Elrond:

"That so long as I abide here, she shall live with the youth of the Eldar," answered Elrond, "and when I depart, she shall go with me, if she so chooses."

Meaning, when Elrond leaves for Valinor, Arwen will no longer be immortal. I think immortality is taken by the Valar. Or it could just be a sort of "rule of nature" for the half-elves, though there are very few.

Quote:
And luthien could give up her immortality because she was half-elf, half maia :)


Acutally, that's not quite right. I'll have to explain from the beginning:

When Luthien found out that Beren had died, she too, died of grief (elves, though immortal, can die of immense grief. They then linger in the Halls of Mandos for a time and are later reborn) When, she arrived in the Halls of Mandos, she grieved in front of Mandos because she knew that Beren, who was a man, would leave the halls and go were men go after death, but she would be restored to the Earth; so they could never be together. She sang a beautiful song to Mandos, he was moved and gave her a privelge that, she and Beren could be returned to the world, but only for a short time.

_________________
Image
Avatar by me :)


Top
 Profile       WWW     YIM        
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: February 6th, 2006, 4:16 am 


ohhh... so when all the Elves leaves M-E and Arwen stays behind, that is when she is considered and actual mortal?


Top
                  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: February 6th, 2006, 4:43 pm 
Elf
Elf
User avatar

Joined: 04 June 2005
Posts: 1388
Location: California

Offline
Yes, but her father in particular. :) Because then the line will have split.

_________________
Image
Avatar by me :)


Top
 Profile       WWW     YIM        
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: February 7th, 2006, 10:37 am 
Hobbit
Hobbit
User avatar

Joined: 18 January 2006
Posts: 35
Location: UK

Offline
OneRingVision 2007 UK

"Put You Passion Into Motion"

http://www.theoneringvision.com


Last edited by OneRingVision on March 19th, 2006, 2:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile       WWW            
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 68 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron




Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Boyz theme by Zarron Media 2003