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 Post subject: A confusing question (well, probably only to me)
PostPosted: November 5th, 2014, 2:30 pm 
Movie Extra
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Hey all. Noob here. I would like a simple translation of "magic" in Faenorian letters. I used a translator to come up with Image . Now my question is...should I be using the English "magic", or should I use the elvish word for "magic" in the translator? Does that make sense? Thanks a lot for the response.


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 Post subject: Re: A confusing question (well, probably only to me)
PostPosted: November 6th, 2014, 5:37 pm 
Gondorian
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Hi! If you want the English word magic you can certainly write it in Elvish letters.

That said, I would suggest tengwar number 4 for c/k when writing English. The picture (at the moment) in your post uses tengwar number 3 -- which can be employed for c when writing in Quenya for example -- and for English can be employed for the sound ch as in march (Tolkien used it to write Westmarch on the title page to The Lord of the Rings). In other words, what you have now for the final letter reads as -ch instead of -c.

I'm no expert but I would use number 4 for this transcription. For the numbered chart see the Appendix on writing in The Return of the King -- sorry I don't know how to post the actual letter here!


Last edited by Elthir on December 15th, 2014, 10:34 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: A confusing question (well, probably only to me)
PostPosted: November 7th, 2014, 2:57 pm 
Gondorian
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I found a link with the numbered chart, in case you don't have the books. To see the shape of the letter you want (in my opinion) for -c, scroll down to the chart (or hit the link for the chart) and note the numbers next to the letters themselves (not the numbers down the left hand side of the chart, for example).

http://quenya101.com/elvish-course/tengwar-alphabet/

As you can see, Elvish letter number 3 is similar to number 4, but number 4 is 'closed', as they say.

And don't be confused by the directions at this link for writing in Quenya, as 'magic' is English of course (for writing in Quenya number 3 is used for c and number 4 for kw/qu).

Tolkien's English examples are both on the bottom of the title page to the books, in the words (written using the Elvish letters of course) Westmarch and king.


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 Post subject: Re: A confusing question (well, probably only to me)
PostPosted: November 10th, 2014, 11:24 am 
Movie Extra
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Awesome.....thanks so much. Your knowledge astounds me! Blessed be.


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 Post subject: Re: A confusing question (well, probably only to me)
PostPosted: November 10th, 2014, 12:09 pm 
Gondorian
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Thanks. And here's a beautiful site by Mans Bjorkman. I'm linking to 'English, General Use' here. I probably should have linked to this site earlier!

http://at.mansbjorkman.net/teng_general_english.htm

The site is called Amanye Tenceli if you're interested in the Elvish letters in general -- or for anyone interested. Have fun!


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 Post subject: Re: A confusing question (well, probably only to me)
PostPosted: November 13th, 2014, 9:11 am 
Movie Extra
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Rogue wrote:
Hey all. Noob here. I would like a simple translation of "magic" in Feanorian letters. I used a translator to come up with Image . Now my question is...should I be using the English "magic", or should I use the elvish word for "magic" in the translator? Does that make sense? Thanks a lot for the response.



Ok, last question: I looked at tutorials on how to write in Tengwar, and one of them said to put the vowel (a, or three dots) over the "m", and the i, or single dot, over the unclosed "g"). According to my translation above, the vowels are over a letter to the right. Can you tell me which is the correct method of writing this? Thanks again.


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 Post subject: Re: A confusing question (well, probably only to me)
PostPosted: November 14th, 2014, 8:11 am 
Gondorian
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The general statement from the Appendix on writing reads: 'The vowels were in many modes represented by tehtar, usually set above a consonantal letter. In languages such as Quenya, in which most words ended in a vowel, the tehta was placed above the preceding consonant; in those such as Sindarin, in which most words ended in a consonant, it was placed above the following consonant.'

Anyway we are dealing with English here, and (so far) I think it's possible to write magic with either placement. In a letter to Anthony D. Howlett, Tolkien demonstrates how to write the name Imladrist "in the antique S. mode shown on the gates of Moria" and "(i)n the general use (applicable to both S. and Q.) of the period of the tale". In the same letter Tolkien also shows two different ways to write Rivendell -- one with the vowels above the preceding consonant, one with the vowels above the following consonant (generally speaking: where consonants are not available one can use a 'carrier').

Not all of Tolkien's linguistic papers have yet been published, but so far I think you can choose 'before or after' here, depending upon which version you like better. For myself I would just be consistent when working with a given text that's longer than one word.


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 Post subject: Re: A confusing question (well, probably only to me)
PostPosted: November 14th, 2014, 5:20 pm 
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Brilliant that. Thanks so much again!


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