I don't think we've disagreed on anything yet, no.
We just have the best opinions. 
Maybe the letter is in all the editions--I only have one, so I don't know.
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| Author: | Aylan [ March 5th, 2007, 5:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Supreme Being? |
There is always a Supreme Being in our lives that helps us to live life. Something that we look up to because we are such lowly people. We have God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. In the Chronicles of Narnia they have Aslan. What do the beings of Middle Earth have? |
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| Author: | Eä [ March 5th, 2007, 6:03 pm ] |
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Eru Ilúvatar was the Supreme Being who created the Universe and the Valar, Middle-earth and its inhabitants. However, as Ellies says, Ilúvatar is not worshipped, as common people probably don't know of him. I don't know if the races besides the Elves and the Númenoreans would know about the Valar (angelic, powerful beings). At least it seems they don't know much of the powers of the Istari (wizards), who are Maiar (lesser Valar). The elves call on the Stars of Elbereth and Galadriel gives Frodo the Light of Eárendil, their most beloved star. |
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| Author: | Aerandir [ March 6th, 2007, 6:12 am ] |
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Yeah, as Eä said, the people of Middle-earth don't tend to be as 'religious' in their daily lives, because all elves and dwarves [should] know of the Ainur (Valar and Maiar) and Ilúvatar. The humans and hobbits are the ones in doubt--some of the greater humans would know about Ilúvatar and the Ainur, but most likely the average peasant wouldn't know. Active worship is not something you see in any of the books, though--you only read of them calling out to the Valar. They do make vows on Ilúvatar sometimes, though. However, since He doesn't take an extremely active and visible role (I think He sort of moves behind the scenes), the Elves most commonly call on the Valar. The dwarves are most closely attached to Aulë (a Vala), who made them. |
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| Author: | ethelfleda [ March 6th, 2007, 6:20 am ] |
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tolkien once said that he wanted his works to be abut religion rather than talk about religion. he hated how obvious the christian message was in c.s. lewis' books, and he didn't want to fall into that trap himself - i think he wanted to let his readers find God/religion/spiritual stuff for themselves in his books, rather than ramming them down their throats. personally, i prefer tolkien's subtlety to lewis' sledgehammer approach. |
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| Author: | Aerandir [ March 6th, 2007, 6:23 am ] |
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Ditto to that, eowyn. I was reading in The Silmarillion the other day, and I don't know if this is in all editions or not, but mine has a letter from him to...somebody (I forget who), and he explained that bit about the religion. I definitely prefer it to Lewis' style. |
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| Author: | ethelfleda [ March 6th, 2007, 6:38 am ] |
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yeah, that letter's in my edition too. that must be where i read it, although it's been a while. have we disagreed on anything yet? lol |
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| Author: | Aerandir [ March 6th, 2007, 6:40 am ] |
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I don't think we've disagreed on anything yet, no. We just have the best opinions.
Maybe the letter is in all the editions--I only have one, so I don't know. |
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| Author: | Eruhin [ March 6th, 2007, 7:50 am ] |
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By the way the Chronicles of Narnia are children's books after all so Lewis had no mind of hiding the message. In my opinion it is a story that tells the story of the bible in some other form but that's also what I like about it. I think the two books aren't really comparable. LotR is however much deeper and complex of course. If you think of the time Tolkien put into it... |
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| Author: | Aerandir [ March 6th, 2007, 10:14 am ] |
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Haha--yeah. 14 years writing LotR alone, let alone the years he spent taking notes on the Elder days, etc. |
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| Author: | ethelfleda [ March 6th, 2007, 1:01 pm ] |
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Eruhin wrote: By the way the Chronicles of Narnia are children's books after all so Lewis had no mind of hiding the message. In my opinion it is a story that tells the story of the bible in some other form but that's also what I like about it. I think the two books aren't really comparable.
LotR is however much deeper and complex of course. If you think of the time Tolkien put into it... i see your point about the chronicles being kids' books, but i don't think that's the reason lewis is more obvious about it - he's just as obvious in his books for adults, and tolkien was just as subtle in the hobbit, which is obviousy a children's book. when it comes down to it, the two men simply favoured different styles and had completely different philosophies towards writing - it's that rather than the audience that makes the difference. |
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| Author: | Eruhin [ March 6th, 2007, 3:24 pm ] |
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True. But-if you want I'll say it a hundred times -the Hobbit is NO children's book though often considered one...
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| Author: | Aerandir [ March 6th, 2007, 4:34 pm ] |
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It wasn't necessarily intended to be a children's book, but that is what it has generally turned out to be--it's more popular with younger readers.
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| Author: | Aylan [ March 6th, 2007, 5:31 pm ] |
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I know Tolkien's style of writing and that he prefers to have his books be about religion and not talk about religion and that worship is not present in any of the books. As for C.S. Lewis, well, he's one of my favorite authers and i don't believe that he hammers the Christian message down anybodys throats in his books. Thanks for the part about Eru, i don't really know anything about him, but this will force me to do my homework on the matter. 
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| Author: | Aerandir [ March 6th, 2007, 5:39 pm ] |
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Lol, no problem Aylan. I didn't mean for it to sound as though Lewis 'forced' Christianity into the books. His style is fine, but I prefer Tolkien's more subtle way of doing it. |
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| Author: | Eruhin [ March 7th, 2007, 11:04 am ] |
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But sometimes I prefer the rather simple way of Lewis though
Depends on my mood... |
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| Author: | Brynhild [ March 7th, 2007, 2:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
If there is a true god to be workshipped in Middle Earth it should be Eru Iluvatar or the Valar, but those aren't really workshipped, because although the Elves know them (and the Dwarves probably too as they were created by one of the Valar) they don't really workship them as you would normally do with a god. That however doesn't mean that no one is workshipped, though it is doubtfull if you can call them gods. Sauron convinced the Numenoreans at one point to bring Human sacrifices to honour Morgoth and Sauron himself was probably workshipped by some of his followers. That doesn't make them gods, there are only people who believe them to be gods and as Sauron was real and the results of his actions clearly visible, it is easy to workship him. Who, but the Elves and Dwarves have ever seen one of the Valar? |
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