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Frodo and his relation to other hobbits
http://www.arwen-undomiel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21268		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Nurrantiel Mashiara [ March 23rd, 2011, 11:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Frodo and his relation to other hobbits
So, I've been rereading FotR this week, and I think one of the fascinating things about the beginning section is how it sets up Frodo. We know that he's different from all the other hobbits, but the way Tolkien writes it is beautiful. But I'll come around to that later.

What I really wanted to start off mentioning was his relation, specifically, to Sam, Pippin, and Merry. I had forgotten about all the stuff that Merry does! It's so interesting, because usually we associate Frodo and Sam together, and Merry and Pippin together. But in the beginning, Sam is very much "beneath" Frodo. Merry and Pippin, as cousins somewhere down the line, are much closer to Frodo. Merry is the one who helps him after Bilbo disappears, who helps him "settle" in Crickhollow, and who by and large found out what Frodo was up to. When they go to Bree, they're introduced as "Mr. Underhill, Mr. Brandybuck, Mr. Took" and Sam Gamgee. It just was so strange, after so long of the movies, to rearrange them like that. Instead of leaning on Sam (which he does TTT on), he's pretty much leaning on Merry.


So, thoughts? Anyone else :-o or :surprise: like I was?
Author:  ErulissëEnethNîn [ March 31st, 2011, 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frodo and his relation to other hobbits
The prominence of the other three hobbits, particularly Merry is really downsized in the films. A lot of things that perhaps Merry is doing or saying in the books was either given to Sam or in most cases to Frodo.

One prime example of this is outside the gates of Moria. In the book, it was Merry who solved the riddle.
Author:  Aiwendil [ March 31st, 2011, 11:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frodo and his relation to other hobbits
I never noticed that! Now I remember though because Sam is "just" Frodo's gardener.

I agree that in the films they downsize Merry but also Pippin.
Author:  Ivreniel [ March 31st, 2011, 11:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frodo and his relation to other hobbits
Yes, in the book Frodo/Sam's relationship does a total flip flop. As does Sam's character. Both totally bloom. At the beginning Sam is "just" Frodo's hired help, his servant, his gardener. He has an interest in learning but isn't learned and doesn't come from a well-to-do family as Frodo, Merry, and Pippin do. Throughout the book Sam's character grows as does Frodo's reliance on him. In the end, Sam becomes very highly revered by all in Middle Earth and essential to Frodo's making it to Mount Doom. Merry is definitely more of the ring leader in the first part before they leave the Shire. Not exactly the goof they turned him into in the film.
Author:  Aiwendil [ March 31st, 2011, 11:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frodo and his relation to other hobbits
I agree with that too... And Pippin is more of a goof than Merry, in my opinion.
Author:  Idril Tinúviel [ May 8th, 2011, 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frodo and his relation to other hobbits
I agree, Merry was pretty played-down in the movies by a lot, and despite whatever Sean may say in his book about Sam, I think he got plenty of screen time. Don't get me wrong, I lurve Sam, but I think Merry is even more "under-appericated" than Sam ever was. Honesty, have you ever heard of a Merry fangirl? :annoyed2:
Author:  Anameleth [ May 8th, 2011, 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frodo and his relation to other hobbits
Merry fangirl right here. So yeah, I've heard of one :P
Author:  Idril Tinúviel [ May 9th, 2011, 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frodo and his relation to other hobbits
Alrighty then.


I stand corrected. :p
Author:  Harthad [ May 14th, 2011, 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frodo and his relation to other hobbits
And also, something to add, Merry and Pippin were portrayed younger in the films than they were in the book. And probably because, in the later books, Sam is such a prominent character and that 'rock', so to say, for Frodo to lean on, they needed to introduce him as a strong character and give him a larger role to support what would come later. But that would be an interesting subplot to have, the beginning Frodo/Sam relationship. But maybe there were too many subplots already. :p
Author:  Aragorn-fan [ June 9th, 2011, 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frodo and his relation to other hobbits
Merry is really downsized in the movie. Something not mentioned is how merry ends the Witch King's curse he set upon himself where no man could kill him. Whether since Eowyn was a woman or not after Merry's stab anyone could've killed the Witch king.
Author:  Anameleth [ June 9th, 2011, 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frodo and his relation to other hobbits
They do show how Merry stabs the Witch King. In the book, Tolkien says that the Witch King's demise was brought about by both Merry and Eowyn; they both helped kill him because neither was a man. Merry wounded him and made it so that Eowyn could deliver the mortal blow.
I agree that Merry was downsized in the movies, but that scene is not a fitting example.
Author:  Aragorn-fan [ June 9th, 2011, 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frodo and his relation to other hobbits
Yeah, they also make him more comical than he actually was. Pippin was a little more goofy in the movie than in the book but that did make him funnier! ANyhow, If another LOTR comes out then I hope it portrays Merry a little better. :bye:
Author:  Idril Tinúviel [ June 9th, 2011, 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frodo and his relation to other hobbits
I personally don't see anyone trying to make another LOTR version, at least not for a long while. The modern version is too successful, and anyone who tried otherwise I think would just be...bashed to death, unless it was somehow godly. XD I still agree with you about Merry though.
Author:  Alanna [ June 10th, 2011, 2:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Frodo and his relation to other hobbits
I think trying to bring in Merry's friendship with Frodo, and then suddenly having that focus shift to Sam, would have been difficult and perhaps confusing. I also think Merry and Pippin were downsized a bit probably to shorten the film and to create a little comic relief, which came in handy with it being such a serious plot. however, I do wish Merry and Pip had kept a few more of their lines, etc. and that Merry had solved the friend riddle at the gate to Moria. I always remembered that from the book and wished he would have done the same in the film.
Author:  Aragorn-fan [ June 10th, 2011, 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frodo and his relation to other hobbits
That does make sense. After all, if the movie followed the book it would take several days to watch one of em. :-D
Author:  Alanna [ June 14th, 2011, 12:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Frodo and his relation to other hobbits
not that I would have objected to a day-long movie. :)
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