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| The most powerful wizard in the ME?????? http://www.arwen-undomiel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21631 |
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| Author: | soheil1996 [ August 1st, 2011, 4:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | The most powerful wizard in the ME?????? |
In my opinion Gandalf is the most powerful wizard |
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| Author: | Cara [ August 1st, 2011, 5:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The most powerful wizard in the ME?????? |
Of course Gandalf but after changing into Gandalf the White. |
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| Author: | soheil1996 [ August 1st, 2011, 6:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The most powerful wizard in the ME?????? |
before that who was the strongest? |
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| Author: | Cara [ August 1st, 2011, 6:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The most powerful wizard in the ME?????? |
For me - Sauron. |
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| Author: | Aerandir [ August 2nd, 2011, 11:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The most powerful wizard in the ME?????? |
Ah, see, this is something of a flawed question--Gandalf, Sauron, Saruman, and the Balrog are all Maiar, the lesser angelic beings of Tolkien's mythos. The Witch-king is simply an ensorcelled human. So he doesn't qualify at all. However, using the term "Wizard" suddenly restricts the contestants to Gandalf and Saruman (Olorin and Curunir), and Gandalf has the greater power between them. Of the Maiar in Middle-earth, though, Sauron was the most powerful. |
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| Author: | Radagast the Brown [ August 8th, 2011, 11:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The most powerful wizard in the ME?????? |
Sauron for me. Why else would Morgoth have chosen him to be his servant? |
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| Author: | soheil1996 [ August 13th, 2011, 2:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The most powerful wizard in the ME?????? |
I think at first Balrog was the most powerful Maiar |
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| Author: | Erkenhelm [ August 26th, 2011, 6:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The most powerful wizard in the ME?????? |
I agree with an above poster: this is a trick question, as "Wizard" only applies to the 5 Istari. With this reasoning it is really up to speculation. Saruman was the head of the order, so many assume that it is because he is the most powerful. However, many have argued that Gandalf was just more humble than Saruman and just hid his power more, but was always the more powerful of the five. If you use the reasoning of the poll, including Sauron, etc., the answer is still up to debate, but for different reasons. Sauron was Morgoth's right hand man so he must be the most powerful, right? Not necessarily. Not all the Maia that joined Morgoth were the most powerful ones. The Balrogs came to Morgoth's aid when Ungoliant attacked him after he refused her the Silmarils. Morgoth was not powerful enough to drive off Ungoliant, but the Balrogs with their whips were. I could go on forever, but here is one last point, using evidence straight from the mouth (or hand) of Tolkien himself. In Tolkien's letters, he discuses the question, who in Middle-earth could possibly defeat Sauron? In short, the answer was no one...unless one person could master the Ring and use it. That person is Gandalf the White. Tolkien says that not one other being in Middle-earth could possibly hope to best Sauron. However, if Gandalf used the Ring and defeated Sauron, he would set himself up as ruler. He would rule kindly and justly in his eyes, but eventually the Ring would twist his doings to make him another Sauron. So with that reasoning, the answer is Sauron, unless Gandalf decided to use the Ring, in which case its a toss up. |
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| Author: | Manwe Sulimo [ August 27th, 2011, 8:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The most powerful wizard in the ME?????? |
In book three of the History of Middle Earth, Sauron's dwelling is named the "Wizard Isle". Does that mean that he is a wizard himself or not? Gandalf is the most powerful of the five Istari after he becomes white. |
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| Author: | Erkenhelm [ August 27th, 2011, 8:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The most powerful wizard in the ME?????? |
"Wizard is a translation of Quenya istar (Sindarin ithron):one of the members of an "order" (as they called it), claiming to posess, and exhitbiting, eminent knowledge of the history and nature of the World." "...they belonged solely to the Thrid Age and then departed..." Both from Unfinished Tales, pg. 405. So Wizard, in Middle-earth, refers solely to the five. Sauron would I think be considered a sorcerer. We must keep in mind that the History of Middle-earth series is a collection of Tolkien's notes, and they were all subject to change if Tolkien changed his mind, so he later may have changed it. Also remember that the history of the Istari was probably not considered until after the Lord of the Rings, as they only appeared in the third age, arriving in Middle-earth around the year 3000. It is probable that he just never went back to that writing after he decided on the definition of Wizard and it stayed the way it was. |
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| Author: | Manwe Sulimo [ August 27th, 2011, 8:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The most powerful wizard in the ME?????? |
That makes sense. Thanks. |
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| Author: | Felarof [ August 13th, 2012, 12:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The most powerful wizard in the ME?????? |
In Unfinished Tales, it says that Gandalf was the most powerful and wisest of the five Istari. Galadriel would have chosen him to be head of the White Council if she could have. Saruman percieved that Gandalf was more powerful than he, and became jealous. |
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| Author: | Manwe Sulimo [ September 6th, 2012, 10:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The most powerful wizard in the ME?????? |
But in certain things, Saruman had more knowledge then Gandalf. For example, the Rings of Power. However, this extended knowledge drove Saruman into evil actions. I have always wondered about the Blue Wizards. Not much is said of them except for that they went into the East of Middle Earth. Also, it says Saruman went into the East of Middle Earth too for a period of time. I wonder what he did there. |
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| Author: | Aragorn Elessar [ September 19th, 2012, 9:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The most powerful wizard in the ME?????? |
I gotta say Gandalf the White was the powerful one but before Gandalf's transformation maybe Sauron. I loved Gandalf the Grey beause he was like a silly one who likes to play games, but Gandalf the White is more serious and world saver but I don't know . |
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| Author: | Manwe Sulimo [ September 25th, 2012, 1:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The most powerful wizard in the ME?????? |
Sauron was not one of the five Istari or Wizards. True, he was originally from Valinor way back in time, but he followed Morgoth. The Istari are from Valinor too, but I would not account Sauron as one of the wizards. |
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