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 Post subject: Never considered this
PostPosted: October 5th, 2013, 11:56 pm 
Istari
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So I was was reading some LotR stuff, and I ran across this question:
How is it significant that Gollum had been a hobbit before acquiring the Ring? To what degree can the Ring's powers be used for good or evil depending on the moral character of its bearer?
And I had never really thought of that stuff before. I mean, I thought of the obvious significance of Gollum being a hobbit because of Frodo seeing what he very well could turn into due to the corruption of the Ring, but thats it really. Any one else have any further thoughts other than my obvious? And as for the second question, i never thought of the Ring doing any good, really, I always thought that it would corrupt whatever it was used for. Is it possible that it could do good for a while before the bearer becomes corrupt? Personally I dont really think so, but just curious as to others thoughts.
(plus it always seems the simple questions strike up fun discussions! :p )

Oh, and just something I've never asked but was always curious about, is Gollum a hobbit, or a creature very similar to a hobbit? I've always thought of him as a hobbit.

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 Post subject: Re: Never considered this
PostPosted: October 6th, 2013, 12:18 am 
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I thought about that too. Especially when I realised that everything happens in Middle Earth, or is a certain way, for a reason.

I think that Gollum needed to be a hobbit, because it showed both sides either what could happen, or remind them of what they could have been. Like you said, about Frodo seeing what he could become due to the ring's corruption. But also, so Gollum could see Frodo and Sam as he once was, a hobbit that was forced away from his home because of the ring's power.

Both Gollum and Frodo had no choice in the matter. The ring was forced onto them, and twisted their mind, took away everything that they cared about. Changed them both forever. Turned them against their own friends. Like how Gollum killed his closest friend, and how Frodo took Gollum's side over Sam's. Gollum was never going to be happy afterwards, when he finally got the ring, if he had have lived. Just like Frodo never saw the Shire in the same way.

In some ways, Frodo and Gollum could be the same hobbit. Gollum's just a little further down the destroyed by the ring path, than Frodo is. Frodo had the strength to keep going, because he had what Gollum didn't. A friend that was going to keep picking him back up, when the power of the ring became too much.

That's just what I think anyway. I notice stuff like that, where things are symbolic for traits in other characters. It all started with my all time fave movie, which has loads of symbolism.

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 Post subject: Re: Never considered this
PostPosted: October 6th, 2013, 12:45 am 
Istari
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I just realized that I never considered Gollum seeing Frodo and Sam as what he once was! :duh: I always just saw the "Frodo sees Gollum" angle of it. Definitely adds a new perspective to their relationship. And obviously plays a role in Gollum converting to Smeagol for a time during their journey. And yes, Sam was definitely a rock for Frodo during the journey, and seemed to become even more of one (in my mind) when they met up with Gollum, like seeing Gollum and how he was made him realize what could happen to Frodo if they failed.
(out of curiosity, what is your favorite movie?)

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 Post subject: Re: Never considered this
PostPosted: October 6th, 2013, 12:59 am 
Ent
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I started to notice that, when Frodo called him Smeagol, and he was happy to have his name back. Just like how he saw absolutely nothing, when he met Bilbo. Then, in his mind, I think Gollum had forgotten about the world outside his cave. I can sort of relate to Gollum more as a character, because I understand what it's like to be so isolated away from things, that you almost forget what it's like, or even forget it entirely.

Two Towers is my fave movie, because that's the first one that I watched.

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 Post subject: Re: Never considered this
PostPosted: October 6th, 2013, 10:31 pm 
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Ok, I now want to re-read the books so that I can look at the story with this new view you mentioned, see what new stuff I can glean from it now. Thats why I adore these books, after so many times reading them I can still discover something new, some new point of view, with each read. Probably also has something to do with growing older as I read them too, you get more perceptive with things with age, so the story constantly alters and changes when it comes to things you notice or how you interpret things. I love that.

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 Post subject: Re: Never considered this
PostPosted: February 1st, 2014, 10:19 am 
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Erin Vanya wrote:
Both Gollum and Frodo had no choice in the matter. The ring was forced onto them, and twisted their mind, took away everything that they cared about.

The ring was given to Frodo, so in a sense he had no choice in the matter. But Gollum aka Smeagol killed his brother to get it. He had a choice and made a bad one. I thought you haven't read the books Erin?

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 Post subject: Re: Never considered this
PostPosted: February 1st, 2014, 10:41 am 
Ent
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I haven't. I got all that from watching the flims.

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 Post subject: Re: Never considered this
PostPosted: February 2nd, 2014, 3:05 am 
Dunedain Ranger of Arnor
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Erin Vanya wrote:
I haven't. I got all that from watching the flims.


... then I'll ignore everything you have to say in the Books forums but will gladly read your opinions in the Movies forums, because one can't possibly knowledgeably discuss books they haven't read, but can knowledgeably discuss movies they have seen.

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 Post subject: Re: Never considered this
PostPosted: February 3rd, 2014, 12:07 pm 
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Hanasían wrote:
... then I'll ignore everything you have to say in the Books forums but will gladly read your opinions in the Movies forums, because one can't possibly knowledgeably discuss books they haven't read, but can knowledgeably discuss movies they have seen.


Hanasían, I think that's a bit harsh. Even the forum members who haven't read the books can still add interesting points to the discussions in the Book section, and their opinions are certainly worth a read. Just because they haven't read the books they can come up with new perspectives that those who have read the books over and over again haven't thought about.

Also, although several parts have been left out in the translation from book to movie, the main themes of the story have still been preserved. Therefore there are several topics on this forum, such as this one, that would fit equally well in the book AND movie section. Just because it was initially posted in the book section doesn't mean it couldn't also fit in the movie section.

Please keep that in mind before you decide someone should read the books before joining the discussions regarding the books ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: Never considered this
PostPosted: February 4th, 2014, 1:48 am 
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Yes, all opinions are welcome, since the movies may shed some light on the material in the books, and the books shed light on the movie material. There's some aspects from the books I've found stand out to me more simply because they were brought out in the movies, but when I read the books they didn't jump out at me. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Never considered this
PostPosted: February 4th, 2014, 7:13 am 
Dunedain Ranger of Arnor
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Yeah, I'm harsh. Because Nothing is sacred anymore. I apologize to you Erin Vanya, for you were unfortunate to have unleashed my wrath. No, I don't have a problem with you personally. I'm sure you are a lovely individual. I'm glad you liked the PJ fanfic movies and came to be exposed to the great literary work that he based his movies on. I an saddened that you, and so many like you that have seen the movies yet can't find anything good about the books, and go into BOOK forums on so many sites and pontificate opinions on the tale based on the movies. Please understand it is not you in particular, but "you" as a representative of all that was lost when the movies came out. You continue to post where you will, and you enjoy yourself. Me, an avid TOLKIEN Literary fan of epic proportions, will sail into the west where us Tolkien Book fans go, and will leave this so-called "book" forum that has been cursed by the interpretation of the tales by the mind of Peter Jackson. I've for the most part enjoyed my 7 years here, but it is time for me to go. Namarie.


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 Post subject: Re: Never considered this
PostPosted: June 14th, 2014, 1:31 pm 
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Well, Smeagol, is a Stoor Hobbit. A clan of Hobbits that lived in the Gladden Fields by the river Anduin. They were into fishing or, in Smeagol's case, nosing around the bank and searching for weeds and plants. So, yes he is a Hobbit, just doesn't live in the Shire.

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 Post subject: Re: Never considered this
PostPosted: June 14th, 2014, 1:31 pm 
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Well, Smeagol, is a Stoor Hobbit. A clan of Hobbits that lived in the Gladden Fields by the river Anduin. They were into fishing or, in Smeagol's case, nosing around the bank and searching for weeds and plants. So, yes he is a Hobbit, just doesn't live in the Shire.

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 Post subject: Re: Never considered this
PostPosted: March 2nd, 2015, 3:31 am 
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I always felt with the fact that Smeagol was a hobbit, Tolkien wanted to show the strenght od this seemengly small and week race.
He was mad, but even after 500 years tortured by the ring, he didn`t fade or turn into shadow, and he kept a little place in his head that was still untact.
While Boromir , for example, succumbed to the power of the ring very quickly.

No, ring could not be used for good. As Gandalf said, "It`s evil altogether"


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 Post subject: Re: Never considered this
PostPosted: March 4th, 2015, 1:07 am 
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Hobbits were definitely underestimated by the enemy, thats for sure! Strength came from unexpected places with that lot, and its a good thing too. Makes me wonder just what makes hobbits so different from other races who fell under the spell of the rings. Purer of heart, perhaps? I mean, eventually, as we can see with Gollum and even some of Frodo's actions, the ring will corrupt a hobbit, but they have more stamina than others it seems.

(nice to see you joining in, ibis! :) )

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 Post subject: Re: Never considered this
PostPosted: March 4th, 2015, 3:28 am 
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Tinker Bell wrote:
Hobbits were definitely underestimated by the enemy, thats for sure! Strength came from unexpected places with that lot, and its a good thing too. Makes me wonder just what makes hobbits so different from other races who fell under the spell of the rings. Purer of heart, perhaps?

(nice to see you joining in, ibis! :) )


Thanks :)
Purer of heart yes, and more grounded, connnected to nature, and therefore more resilient to things made by hand...They even lived in the ground, or under it...Tolkien loved nature very much, I believe...


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