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 Post subject: Re: Hobbits and Hobbiton
PostPosted: July 25th, 2016, 10:24 am 
Gondorian
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Well, not in defense of the film, or to suggest the filmy interpretation is necessarily faithful (can't really recall how the films handled it in any case), but Saruman had something that, after a crash and a "flash of flame and smoke" resulted in "a gaping hole was blasted in the wall".

Aragorn called it Saruman's devilry, and said "they have lit the fire of Orthanc beneath our feet"

Whatever it was :)


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 Post subject: Re: Hobbits and Hobbiton
PostPosted: July 25th, 2016, 1:27 pm 
Dunedain Ranger of Arnor
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Elthir wrote:
Well, not in defense of the film, or to suggest the filmy interpretation is necessarily faithful (can't really recall how the films handled it in any case), but Saruman had something that, after a crash and a "flash of flame and smoke" resulted in "a gaping hole was blasted in the wall".

Aragorn called it Saruman's devilry, and said "they have lit the fire of Orthanc beneath our feet"

Whatever it was :)


Yes, he did blow a hole in the wall of Helms Deep. The 'delivery method of what is open to interpretation. I always thought Saruman delivered the exploding bolt by wizardy from Orthanc, but that is my interpretation from reading the books.

and in defence of the Book forum, I am more than happy to discuss PJ's interpretation of this over in Ithilien (the Movie Two Towers Forum). I like to think I'm discussing the books and reader's interpretations in the book forum... sorry, I must have forgotten what site I was on. :closedeyes:

Now I'll be off to the Green Dragon for a proper ale. It's noce hanging out with Hobbits in Hobbiton! :yes:

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 Post subject: Re: Hobbits and Hobbiton
PostPosted: July 25th, 2016, 10:57 pm 
Warden of the Knight
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Hanasían wrote:
Jax Nova wrote:
I'm not sure it's in the books. I am thinking in the movie where he makes the bomb to blow up the wall at Helms Deep.


[color=gray] :frust: Ah. It's that bit in that PJ Boyens fanfic, not J.R.R. Tolkien books. Gotcha.



Lol My bad. Indontend to mix and match in my mind.

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 Post subject: Re: Hobbits and Hobbiton
PostPosted: July 26th, 2016, 11:26 am 
Gondorian
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In my defense, my post was mainly about the books... for Jax... who said he wasn't sure if something was in the books or not. For myself, I'm not interested in discussing whether or not Jackson was faithful here, given that I think the book description is open to interpretation here...

... but given that, it seemed to me that characterizing Jax's response ["I am thinking in the movie where he makes the bomb to blow up the wall at Helms Deep"] so sweepingly as fanfic was arguably a bit too strong. Again, there was a blast in the wall due to some devilry of Saruman... I'm not sure it can't be some sort of "bomb" in some vague sense. Tolkien scholars Hammond and Scull describe (Guide to The Lord of the Rings): "fire of Orthanc" -- A "blasting fire" as later described, some form of explosives...."

That's my book interpretation too, if vague enough as to the ingredients :)


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 Post subject: Re: Hobbits and Hobbiton
PostPosted: July 26th, 2016, 6:55 pm 
Warden of the Knight
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Makes sense, really... it being so vague as you describe. I could see people coming to either conclusion. Tolkien seemed to leave a few spots like that in the book where some things are just left unexplained it seems.

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 Post subject: Re: Hobbits and Hobbiton
PostPosted: July 26th, 2016, 10:16 pm 
Dunedain Ranger of Arnor
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Elthir wrote:
In my defense, my post was mainly about the books... for Jax... who said he wasn't sure if something was in the books or not. For myself, I'm not interested in discussing whether or not Jackson was faithful here, given that I think the book description is open to interpretation here...

... but given that, it seemed to me that characterizing Jax's response ["I am thinking in the movie where he makes the bomb to blow up the wall at Helms Deep"] so sweepingly as fanfic was arguably a bit too strong.


There are the books written by J.R.R. Tolkien, and there is a three movie screenplay interpretation of those books done by PJ, Boyens, and co, which is essentially a big budget fanfic. There is a whole sub forum on this site for their discussion. Being that we are here in the Books forum, I assumed the books were being discussed and allowed myself to get drawn in to that assumption. It is sad that most Tolkien book discussions on the net will invariable draw statements and commentary from that blasted PJ fanfic.I don't believe that is an overly strong statement.

So.... no commentary on Hobbits or Hobbiton? The ale is fine here at the Green Dragon. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Hobbits and Hobbiton
PostPosted: July 26th, 2016, 10:31 pm 
Warden of the Knight
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Lol, Indeed, fine ale always at the green dragon. ;)

There is one thing, I have wondered due to the LOTR online game. Evendim is above the shire (granted hobbiton is a small location in the shire)

Did goblins or orcs ever come down from Evendim into the shire at all in the books?

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 Post subject: Re: Hobbits and Hobbiton
PostPosted: July 27th, 2016, 4:50 am 
Dunedain Ranger of Arnor
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Yes, they managed to get into the North Farthing one winter. The only time I can recall Hobbits ever fighting was against them. Bullroarer Took made a name for himself with his feats in the battle.

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 Post subject: Re: Hobbits and Hobbiton
PostPosted: July 27th, 2016, 8:02 am 
Gondorian
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Hanasían wrote:
There are the books written by J.R.R. Tolkien, and there is a three movie screenplay interpretation of those books done by PJ, Boyens, and co, which is essentially a big budget fanfic. There is a whole sub forum on this site for their discussion. Being that we are here in the Books forum, I assumed the books were being discussed and allowed myself to get drawn in to that assumption. It is sad that most Tolkien book discussions on the net will invariable draw statements and commentary from that blasted PJ fanfic.I don't believe that is an overly strong statement.


Okay, and I'm aware of the different forums (and I didn't pull the films into this forum), but what was overly strong in my opinion was the arguable suggestion that this scene (the blasting of the wall) was just fanfic, not merely a part of Jackson's larger work sweepingly referred to as fanfic. Anyway...

Quote:
Yes, he did blow a hole in the wall of Helms Deep. The 'delivery method of what is open to interpretation. I always thought Saruman delivered the exploding bolt by wizardy from Orthanc, but that is my interpretation from reading the books.



Hmm. I never thought that. In the books Aragorn says of the enemy at hand (directly after the blast): "Devilry of Saruman!" cried Aragorn. "They have crept in the culvert again while we talked, and they have lit the fire of Orthanc beneath our feet."

And later: "But the Orcs have brought a devilry from Orthanc," said Aragorn. "They have a blasting fire, and with it they took the wall."


Last edited by Elthir on July 27th, 2016, 12:51 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Hobbits and Hobbiton
PostPosted: July 27th, 2016, 8:09 am 
Gondorian
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Quote:
Did goblins or orcs ever come down from Evendim into the shire at all in the books?


Side note: goblins and orcs are the same exact thing in the books. Maybe you are thinking of the films (where they are different) ;-)

Apologies... couldn't resist :-D


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 Post subject: Re: Hobbits and Hobbiton
PostPosted: July 27th, 2016, 5:07 pm 
Warden of the Knight
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@Hanasian. Ok, cool, Inwas wondering about that because it seemed I had heard something of that somewhere. I couldn't bensure though if it was just on the game.

@Elthir lol In fact I didnhave a lengthy conversation about that at one point, though I do tend to forget.

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 Post subject: Re: Hobbits and Hobbiton
PostPosted: August 17th, 2016, 3:01 pm 
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Captain Boromir wrote:
If I was a ranger I would love to be at the Sarn Ford campsite. My retirement plan I guess lol. Here is a scene from it in the War in the North game. The music is just great in my opinion! Still can't figure out how to get the video to appear on the page though. :annoyed: You don't see it in the video but you can actually see a couple of Hobbit holes across the river. If I can figure out how I may make a video myself and upload it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMQxmFeOJA4


I finally got the video finished. I will post it tomorrow in a new thread. Also did some other videos of the game, just walking around to give you an idea of how the places look and explore them a little. There not long because they are only the places that you stop to resupply and stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: Hobbits and Hobbiton
PostPosted: December 20th, 2016, 2:49 am 
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I love the shire for its simplicity and love for the simple things in life. All they really care about is good food, ale, pipeweed, and a comfortable hole, and they are perfectly content just with that. I think it would be a nice place to visit for a rest after long travels, but I think I would get just a little bored. Trying new things every once in a while is a very healthy habit. There'snot enough variety in the shire to keep me occupied for a hundred years, I suppose.

I do love the society, though. My brother always said, "you know you have a good society when your sheriffs spend more time chasing chickens than actual criminals." And until Saruman showed up, that's exactly what they did.

As for where I would live, I think id like buckland. It's near a river, they like boats, and they are generally considered the odd ones in the society, and I respect and enjoy that. It'd be fun to be a Brandybuck!

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 Post subject: Re: Hobbits and Hobbiton
PostPosted: April 2nd, 2017, 2:27 pm 
Elf
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Hobbiton had a mill (even pre Sharkey), which probably derived from JRRT's fond childhood memories of the time his mother, his brother Hilary and he himself spent there from 1896 to 1900. The Sarehole Mill still exists, now as a museum in the south of Birmingham. But in Shire terms, that made Hobbiton almost the Birmingham of it, with a mill being about the height of "industrialization" in the Shire.

Bag End under Bilbo and Frodo was quite the gentry's lodgings for Hobbiton, certainly far smaller that Brandy Hall, say, but still very much a Hobbit mansion. Makes me wonder how it grew as big as it did while Bilbo's parents lived there (perhaps the dowry his mother Belladonna Took brought into the marriage?).

As to living there, I would tend to prefer Buckland, or actually Bree, to be truthful. For lazy relaxing vacations, Hobbiton could be quite the right place.

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