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What is Tom Bombadil?
http://www.arwen-undomiel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9089		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Inwenyárë [ June 19th, 2006, 2:14 am ]
Post subject:  What is Tom Bombadil?
What is he? I know he's the master of the Forest, but is he a man/elf/wizard/hobbit...what is he? I think he's kind of a God, you know he has a huge effect on the Forest, he's the Master. And when Frodo&co gets into trouble, they can call him to help with a song (which I think is like saying a prayer!) Tolkien was a Catholic, wasn't he?

Sorry for this religious aspect, I just wanted to ask ppl's opinions!
Author:  Darrell [ June 19th, 2006, 4:48 am ]
Post subject: 
No body knows what Tom Bombadil is. He is described by most, including Tolkien himself, as an enigma. My opinion is he is something to do with the Ainur, possibly a Maia (there is a theory that he is Iluvatar himself). There are however numerous possibilities that are frequently discussed. Your question got me thinking, and looking. I use the Encyclopedia of Arda for almost everything Tolkien, and the entry there for Tom Bombadil is one of the most extensive on the site. Here is the link, in which it shows all the argument about Tom Bombadil. http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.as ... tml#riddle
Author:  Meldawen [ June 19th, 2006, 10:06 am ]
Post subject: 
Yes, I always thought of him as a Maia. I don't think he's Iluvatar (it doesn't seem right). There's a funny argument for his identity here: http://flyingmoose.org/tolksarc/theories/bombadil.htm - it's a bit frighteningly possible!
Author:  Darrell [ June 19th, 2006, 11:34 am ]
Post subject: 
Hehehehehe, I've read that before. It made me laugh, and it's another possiblity, but it was written more as a joke than as a real possiblity :D
Author:  Nauriel Rochnur [ June 19th, 2006, 11:52 am ]
Post subject: 
Yes, he could, but then you get into a little argument. There is some evidence for it, such as Goldberry saying that "He is" (God's responce to Moses when asked for a name was 'I am') But there's also the argument of power. He has plenty of power if his territory, indeed, he is The Master. But he says that he has no power of the Nazgul. Wouldn't Eru, the creator, have power of all his creation?
Author:  Darrell [ June 19th, 2006, 1:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
The problem with the TB is Iluvatar theory is that Tolkien hinself said in one of his letters 'There is no embodiment of the One, of God, who indeed remains remote, outside the World, and only directly accessible to the Valar or Rulers.' Which definately says Tom isn't Iluvatar. [It is all explain in the link I posted above]
Author:  Inwenyárë [ June 19th, 2006, 1:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hey thanks guys!
but what are Maia and Vala? He's got to be one of them, surely he's not Iluvatar or a wizard, a wizard would probably disappear when putting on the Ring. But if he'd be the witch king or whatever he wouldn't have tried on the Ring and then let it go! Stupid theory! So, Vala or Maia, but what are they?
Author:  Larael [ June 19th, 2006, 2:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ah, the good ol' discussion continues...

We've brought this discussion up many times when we've spoken of what Goldberry is. But, I still don't fully understand it. We really have no clue what Tom is, just that he is not something earthly.

The best theory I can remember was Arsa's [I believe it was her] idea that Tom was a kind of personification of nature. It really fits that way I think.
Author:  Meldawen [ June 19th, 2006, 6:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
In answer to your question, Earlinde, Maiar and Valar are beings created by Iluvatar. You could probably call them demigods or angels. They were all originally Ainur (I think I'm getting this right - haven't read the silmarillion in a while) but when Iluvatar created Arda, some of them went to, I dunno, watch over it or something...I forget that part...anyway, there are 16 Valar and I don't know how many Maiar. The Maiar are sort of like lesser gods/angels, servants of the Valar. Correct me if I'm wrong, guys :)
Author:  Nauriel Rochnur [ June 19th, 2006, 8:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well, there were 14 valar, not 16, but otheer than that you're completely right. (As far as I can tell. What do I know?)
Author:  Inwenyárë [ June 20th, 2006, 3:17 am ]
Post subject: 
okay... yeah the personification of nature was a good idea, it's odd Tolkien never told what is Tom... he could've written something like: "Tom was one of the Vala...blaa...he put the Ring on...blaa" etc. Odd.
Author:  Darrell [ June 20th, 2006, 5:30 am ]
Post subject: 
Yeah, but - and I quote from my above link- Tolkien said that 'even in a mythical Age there must be some enigmas, as there always are. Tom Bombadil is one (intentionally)'. So, Tolkien never intended Tom to be anything in particular. It was a deliberate move on his part, nutcase :D
Author:  Inwenyárë [ June 20th, 2006, 7:25 am ]
Post subject: 
what is an enigma then?
Author:  Darrell [ June 20th, 2006, 9:07 am ]
Post subject: 
The google definition of enigma:
1. One that is puzzling, ambiguous, or inexplicable.
2. A perplexing speech or text; a riddle.
Author:  Inwenyárë [ June 20th, 2006, 9:58 am ]
Post subject: 
umm...okay, I couldn't understand a word you just said... in the normal english tongue, an enigma is an...?
Author:  Meldawen [ June 20th, 2006, 11:28 am ]
Post subject: 
Enigma = something confusing or unexplainable. My dad likes to say about confusing things, "A mystery wrapped inside a conundrum wrapped inside an enigma." He's a bit weird that way.

There are 14? Wow, and I was under the delusion there were 16 all this time...well, there are 15 if you count Melkor....but you usually don't...
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