| Author |
Message |
|
|
Post subject:  Posted: February 7th, 2007, 5:23 am |
|
Joined: 19 September 2006
Posts: 2126
Location: england
|
|
thanks. it wasn't difficult once i'd done some reading on the subject.
and university's great as long as you enjoy your subject. i absolutely love it here. what do you want to study?
_________________ <center> 
**MY BOOK**
~ proud to be a shieldmaiden for christ ~</center>
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
|
Post subject: Posted: February 7th, 2007, 7:51 am |
|
Joined: 02 January 2006
Posts: 5728
Location: Mithlond
Country: 
|
|
I'm planning to go to Med school. I don't think I'll have to write literature essays for that (that'd be weird), so it shouldn't be too bad (I'll still have to write papers about various things, but probably not about books).
_________________ 
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
|
Post subject: Re: sound familiar? Posted: February 11th, 2007, 2:24 am |
|
Joined: 28 November 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Rivendell (hah I wish)
|
eowyn of ithilien wrote: this is from the the wanderer (an old english poem):
where has the horse gone? where is the rider? where is the giver of gold?
where are the seats of the feast? where are the joys of the hall?
o the bright cup! o the brave warrior!
o the glory of princes! how the time passed away,
slipped into nightfall as if it had never been
and this (as you should know) is from the two towers:
where now the horse and the rider? where is the horn that was blowing?
where is the helm and the hauberk and the bright hair flowing?
where is the hand on the harpstring and the red fire glowing?
where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing?
they have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow;
the days have gone down in the west behind the hills into the shadow.
who shall gather the smoke of the dead wood burning,
or behold the flowing years from the sun returning?
i don't want to start another 'did tolkien steal?' debate, but i do think it's interesting to see where he got his inspiration from (i know tolkien knew the wanderer because he was teaching it at my uni 80 years ago). interestingly enough, the poem also refers to "middle-earth".
Well, I was watching TTT the movie with the commentary on, and Bernard Hill was saying that the poem was "pinched" from an old Scandanavian poem. So of course Tolkien didn't outright steal it, but he was definitely inspired by that poem. Good find! _________________ 
Thanks RA, Elenriel, PD/Aliana Dawn, Arwen, Aramel, Shadowcat, Nurr, Tar-Dis!
Pippin of Herenya's Line - "...give nothing back!"
Got fed up and eloped with Ragetti 1-3-08 
PHYLLIS, THE ANTI-SUSPIAN!
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
|
Post subject: Posted: February 11th, 2007, 6:40 am |
|
Joined: 19 September 2006
Posts: 2126
Location: england
|
|
^ grrr, i'm mega annoyed at bernard hill now. the poem's anglo-saxon NOT scandinavian. we have little enough old english poetry as it is, so people really shouldn't try and give it away to the scandinavians.
sorry, rant over. thanks for that though, anie surion - it's good to know the actors were doing a little investigating, even if they weren't doing it properly.
_________________ <center>
**MY BOOK**
~ proud to be a shieldmaiden for christ ~</center>
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
|
Post subject: Posted: February 11th, 2007, 10:39 am |
|
Joined: 02 January 2006
Posts: 5728
Location: Mithlond
Country:
|
|
Lol, I know what you mean, eowyn. My friends think I'm weird and nit-picky when I get upset over things like that, but it drives me crazy.
_________________
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
|
Post subject: Posted: February 11th, 2007, 3:55 pm |
|
Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 15181
Location: Minas Morgul
|
|
Yeah. I wouldn't say Tolkien stole it --- authors are known to be inspired by something, just as artists are inspired by something --- to add a piece like that into his work---it's saying that he was inspired, but he didn't copy as I got different themes and meanings from the poems.
_________________
<center>
THE HALLOWFEST 2010
<a href="http://www.arwen-undomiel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20958">information here</a>
</center>
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
|
Post subject: Posted: February 12th, 2007, 10:23 am |
|
Joined: 02 January 2006
Posts: 5728
Location: Mithlond
Country:
|
Ditto, Kit. To me, the two poems invoke two different ideas. I think Tolkien's one is way cooler.  _________________
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
|
Post subject: Posted: February 12th, 2007, 12:22 pm |
|
Joined: 19 September 2006
Posts: 2126
Location: england
|
|
oh yeah, tolkien clearly didn't just steal it - there are key stylistic and thematic differences between the two. i think he wanted to invoke the whole tradition of anglo-saxon wisdom poetry and so he did that by effectively rewriting a section of one of the elegies that are part of that tradition.
and actually, i think i prefer the passage from the wanderer. i love that last line.
_________________ <center>
**MY BOOK**
~ proud to be a shieldmaiden for christ ~</center>
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
|
Post subject: Posted: February 13th, 2007, 10:16 am |
|
Joined: 07 October 2006
Posts: 2474
Location: From the north I have come, need has driven me and I have passed the doors to the path of the M6
|
eowyn of ithilien wrote: ^ grrr, i'm mega annoyed at bernard hill now. the poem's anglo-saxon NOT scandinavian. we have little enough old english poetry as it is, so people really shouldn't try and give it away to the scandinavians.
sorry, rant over. thanks for that though, anie surion - it's good to know the actors were doing a little investigating, even if they weren't doing it properly.
I spose that the orginating areas fo the saxons and th escandanavians are pretty close so Languages would have ssimoilar elements. To any non language expert or student most of th elanguage would have been similar I spose. Also, Eowyn, what do u know of The Nibelungenlied ( I hope thats teh rite name n spelling!)? It is a german poem biut you appear to be the expert here so I defer to u in this case.
_________________
"This is the hour of the Shire-folk, when they arise from their quiet fields to shake the towers and counsels of the Great. Who of all the Wise could have foreseen it? Or, if they are wise, why should they expect to know it, until the hour has struck? "
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
|
Post subject: Posted: February 13th, 2007, 1:55 pm |
|
Joined: 19 September 2006
Posts: 2126
Location: england
|
|
^ i don't speak anglo-saxon or old norse (yet), so i couldn't say how similar the languages were, but judging from the proper nouns of the two languages, and the fact that their modern ancestors are so dissimilar, i'd say they weren't too alike. i think it's the presence of both cultures in britain and the impact they had on english language and literature that gets most people confused.
i know of the nibelungenlied, but i've never read it. middle german literature's a little outside my field i'm afraid.
_________________ <center>
**MY BOOK**
~ proud to be a shieldmaiden for christ ~</center>
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
|
Post subject: Posted: February 13th, 2007, 4:11 pm |
|
Joined: 02 January 2006
Posts: 5728
Location: Mithlond
Country:
|
|
Lol. In ever really thought Anglo-Saxon was like any Norse language, but I haven't really compared the two, either, not knowing practically anything in either.
Btw, I think Saxon looks much cooler when it's spelled as "Saecsen."
_________________
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
|
Post subject: Posted: February 15th, 2007, 2:31 am |
|
Joined: 28 November 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Rivendell (hah I wish)
|
eowyn of ithilien wrote: ^ grrr, i'm mega annoyed at bernard hill now. the poem's anglo-saxon NOT scandinavian. we have little enough old english poetry as it is, so people really shouldn't try and give it away to the scandinavians.
sorry, rant over. thanks for that though, anie surion - it's good to know the actors were doing a little investigating, even if they weren't doing it properly.
Sorry...I'm just the messenger, heh. _________________
Thanks RA, Elenriel, PD/Aliana Dawn, Arwen, Aramel, Shadowcat, Nurr, Tar-Dis!
Pippin of Herenya's Line - "...give nothing back!"
Got fed up and eloped with Ragetti 1-3-08
PHYLLIS, THE ANTI-SUSPIAN!
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
|
Post subject: Posted: February 15th, 2007, 4:12 am |
|
Joined: 02 January 2006
Posts: 5728
Location: Mithlond
Country:
|
Lol, Anie. Don't kill the messenger, huh?  _________________
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
|
Post subject: Posted: February 15th, 2007, 10:28 am |
|
Joined: 19 September 2006
Posts: 2126
Location: england
|
|
i wasn't shooting the messenger, honest.
i've also learned that the wolf, the raven and the eagle were the traditional "beasts of battle" in anglo-saxon poetry - a tradition tolkien continued in the hobbit (all three are present at the battle of five armies).
_________________ <center>
**MY BOOK**
~ proud to be a shieldmaiden for christ ~</center>
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
|
Post subject: Posted: February 15th, 2007, 1:05 pm |
|
Joined: 02 January 2006
Posts: 5728
Location: Mithlond
Country:
|
|
I didn't know that they were beasts of battle, but I knew that they were certainly common. Norse mythology, too.
_________________
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
|
Post subject: Posted: February 15th, 2007, 1:10 pm |
|
Joined: 19 September 2006
Posts: 2126
Location: england
|
|
^ yup, anytime there's a battle in anglo-saxon poetry, they'll be there.
i've just started a thread on medieval literature in the literature section, if you're interested.
oh, and as a little aside - i got 71/90 (a first) for that beowulf essay i was talking about before.
_________________ <center>
**MY BOOK**
~ proud to be a shieldmaiden for christ ~</center>
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Who is online |
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests |
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Boyz theme by Zarron Media 2003
|
|
