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PostPosted: August 26th, 2007, 4:31 pm 
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Yes, but how did he "get" that way? This is all a jumble to me really as I keep mixing in stuff from the movies and the books and I really don't know what to think. I know it happened after he defeated the Balrog, but other than that I'm lost... it's been much too long since I've read TTT really.

By the way, I like that quote of Gandalfs. If I understand it correctly he is saying that he and Saruman share the same amount of power, but are on opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to good vs. evil.


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PostPosted: August 27th, 2007, 8:39 am 
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Sinbearer wrote:
I agree with you, too, that though he resorts to violence when necessary, he primarily acts as counselor, mentor and friend to the rulers of the kingdoms of men and of elves—to bring about good. Gandalf is the one person in their journey they know they can rely on. When they are in the worst situations, he is there to help them. He's like a constant thing that they can always count on.

I also notice that Tolkien focuses more on Gandalf's wisdom than he does on his spells or powers. (Of which I've heard many complaints)

Other things I find interesting are that he has no romantic attachments, always counsels for the most merciful path, and has sacrificed his entire life to bring peace to men. I see why you are fascinated with him.

I found this very interesting. Especially, that Tolkien does focus a lot more on Gandalf's wisdom than his magical powers. Gandalf is first and foremost the counsellor. I wonder if Gandalf could have been a ruler but I have a feeling he would know his limitations and rejected even if the people of Middle-earth had asked it of him. Unlike Saruman who met his own downfall because be wanted to change his own path and destiny. Saruman strayed from his task and I'm sure Gandalf would have ended up like Saruman if he had used more of his powers and less of his wisdom.

Larael, I believe Saruman had the greatest powers when the Istari came to Middle-earth but Gandalf had an equally great potential and the way they each chose to administer their powers shaped each fate. The istari were not meant to rule, only to counsel. I never thought much of the other istaris' colours but I imagine they represent their personality and power. Gandalf did not develop his full potential until after he had defeated the balrog. His grey robes always made me think of an apprentice. He was aware that he needed to be humble in order to achieve further knowledge and to grow. Saruman lacked the humility and grew greedy and proud.

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PostPosted: August 27th, 2007, 1:36 pm 
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Well, when the Istari came to Middle-earth, Saruman was the most powerful, but Gandalf was the wisest. In "Of the Istari", Tolkien mentions that 'Olorin' (Gandalf) was the wisest of all of the Maiar. Radagast, Allatar, and Pallando weren't really differentiated between in terms of power.

Unfortunately, it wasn't really explained how Gandalf is more powerful after Moria, but it was made pretty clear that he was more powerful than Saruman. There are a number of quotes that back that up, but I'm too lazy to post them unless you guys want me to. :P

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 Post subject: A humble spirit.....
PostPosted: October 1st, 2007, 10:14 pm 
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One of the wisest men that ever lived once said, "Pride goes before destruction and a haughty spirit before a fall." I think what you said Eä about knowing who you are and accepting your path and destiny was so important in Gandalf's actions. I think a humble spirit helps a whole lot.

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PostPosted: October 1st, 2007, 11:20 pm 
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I totally agree with you, Sinbearer...:blush: If only I could have said it that way...

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PostPosted: October 3rd, 2007, 1:50 am 
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Wow, Sinbearer. That quote hadn't even occurred to me, but it fits really well in that situation. Humility is very, very important.

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 Post subject: A Wonderful Picture...
PostPosted: October 30th, 2007, 8:20 pm 
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I was just reading in RotK today and two things struck me. Gandalf had a lot of compassion. In a conversation with Denethor, he said, "As for me, I pity even his slaves. (refering to Sauron) A place in Gandalf's heart for Orcs? Wow!

You know, sometimes names are superfluous. Pippen just knew Gandalf as a friend and I think his musings in Minas Tirith paint a wonderful picture:

"Denethor looked indeed much more like a great wizard than Gandalf did, more kingly, beautiful, and powerful; and older. Yet by a sense other than sight Pippin perceived that Gandalf had the greater power and the deeper wisdom, and a majesty that was veiled. And he was older, far older. 'How much older?' he wondered, and then he thought how odd it was that he had never thought about it before. Treebeard had said something about wizards, but even then he had not thought of Gandalf as one of them. What was Gandalf? In what far time and place did he come into the world, and when would he leave it? And then his musings broke off, and he saw that Denethor and Gandalf still looked each other in the eye, as if reading the other's mind. But it was Denethor who first withdrew his gaze."

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PostPosted: October 31st, 2007, 3:16 pm 
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Yeah. I love the book Gandalf so much more than the movie Gandalf--so much more of his character is portrayed in the book, and not in the movie. Just from the movie you would never get any idea that Gandalf even has compassion on Orcs. I'm sure that none of the other characters do, at least not as lasting or great of a compassion as Gandalf has.

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PostPosted: November 2nd, 2007, 2:34 pm 
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We have touched on it before, but I think the more names a person is given, the greater the personality. First of all because there are so many things to say, but more importanly because it is difficult to capture the essence of a great person, there are too many aspects and facets to the personality.
So in that way I don't agree with you Sinbearer when you say that names are superfluous... Well, yeah, in the way that one word or even more will never do justice to a powerful person like Gandalf. But I love the way you use the quote here. Pippin felt what Gandalf, he felt the essence of Gandalf, his soul. And I'm sure everyone else could feel it, but emotions and words are not neccesarily connected or percieved the same way. Different people would put different words to describe the feeling, that is my guess to why gandalf has so many names.

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PostPosted: November 3rd, 2007, 2:13 pm 
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Agreed, Eä. Especially considering the fact that all of Gandalf's names have meanings, and not completely irrelevant ones. Gandalf was named by people according to his actions or the feelings he evoked in them, etc. So names are superfluos in a way, yet from names that people give him, it's possible to figure out their general opinion of him as well, in which case names do matter, and are useful.

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 Post subject: Overshadows.....
PostPosted: November 3rd, 2007, 5:28 pm 
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You know Eä, sometimes perhaps I don't use the right word or words to get my feeling across. Names DO mean a lot but I was just feeling when I read that quote I put up that sometimes the way we feel about a person overshadows what we call them. But I guess you understood what I was saying anyway.....

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