Lol, Ea. Gandalf discussions are not simply rarer, they are just plain rare. This is like the only one. *shrug* And it seem's we've exhausted the discussion in it already.

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Really? Well, at least old Gandalf is always mentioned in quotations threads...

I do remember we had a couple of discussions on the Gandalf subject. We had some about his grey-ness and white-ness and also in relation to Saruman...
Is there anything you want to talk about?

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Um, we could talk about his grey-ness and white-ness and relation to Saruman....

He is definitely my favorite Maia, though Eonwe comes close, being the Herald of Manwe and all that.

But while Eonwe was mightiest in arms, Olorin was the wisest of the Maiar.

So...here's a question for ya--when do you think Olorin was in Beleriand? Before the Noldor left Valinor, or afterwards?

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lol, Aerandear.
On a first thought I would think he wasn't there until later, he wouldn't need to be there until the Noldor left. But I assume you could easily find the answer to this question, so I have another one..

Why was Saruman appointed the head of the istari in the first place? Did Gandalf manage to 'play his cards' better and wiser, keep his head cool, when Saruman played the game of power, even though Saruman might have had the greatest powers when they came to Middle-earth?

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Actually, I don't think there is an answer to the first question--in Tolkien's essay on the Istari, he mentions that Olorin often moved among them in a form like one of them, or simply not visible, planting ideas in their minds, etc. That's what I was basing my question off of--Tolkien didn't say if it was the Noldor, Sindarin, or both to whom he did that.

As for why Curunír was elected to the head of the Istari, I think it was simply that he was the most powerful of them. Olorin was the wisest of all of the Istari, so I don't know why he wasn't set over the rest, but maybe it wasn't realized that he was the wisest.

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I haven't read much of the History of Middle-earth and it's been a while since I read the Silmarilion... *whispers* I don't have the copy...

*thinks* It makes a lot of sense that Saruman was considered the head of the order based on his powers, since he clearly was more powerful than Gandalf the Grey - however, with great power comes great responsability, and Saruman didn't manage his lust for power very well, whereas Gandalf was very humble about his powers and kept his focus on the task he was given.
Wisdom is difficult to measure, and I believe Gandalf's wisdom grew over the many years he spent in Middle-earth... or perhaps he and Saruman had different wisdoms....

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*gasp* You don't have the Silmarillion!!?!? *shuns*

We really don't do a good job of debating, you know that? We only ever agree with each other . But I think that while Gandalf had great wisdom, Saruman simply had great skill. After all, Curunír does mean "Man of Skill" or whatever. It makes sense.

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*is being rightfully shunned*
I know... I'm so bad...
I just couldn't find a nice (English) version of it in the bookstores... but I promise I'll get it..
*goes to the dark corner of shame*

Hmm... don't agree with me and we can have our heated discussions!! Problem solved!! lol
Yes, Curunír means Man of Skill.. although I think it would be funny if it actually meant Man of Skull...

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- married fingon fingolfinion 6/4/13 -
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Incanus means "Quite Grey?" Weird....

Lol, Ea. Man of Skull. Well, at least in the movie Saruman looked rather like a lot of skin-and-bones-without-much-flesh, but I never really imagined him that skinny in the books.

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Copy/pasted shamelessly from EoA:

The meaning of Incánus is a question that Tolkien addressed differently at different times. Its ultimate origin seems to have been the Latin word incánus, meaning 'grey', or 'grey-haired'. Latin being rather inappropriate to Middle-earth, Tolkien reinterpreted it variously as a Westron word meaning 'Greymantle', or as an Elvish name, suggesting both 'north spy' and 'mind ruler' as possible meanings. This last, from in(id) 'mind' and kan- 'ruler', seems to have been his preference, though it is difficult to state this with certainty.*

Mind-ruler makes me think of Saruman, but I'm sure Gandalf had the same abilities or at least it would appear like that to common people when in the presence of a maia.

*The problem with EoA is the same as with Wikipedia, the primary sources aren't listed... which may be a problem. So all I can say it that it's 'generally agreed in the rather reliable community of EoA users'...

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Right. Thanks, Eä. I myself am a devout EoA user, but I had never looked up 'Incanus' before.

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Well, sometimes I think it's nice to go there and check facts-based information since I am a person who can't remember dates, years and 'factual' facts for the life of me.
But in general I like the 'thinking' discussions more, but in order to be able to argue in those, one also needs to have the facts straight, otherwise the discussion usually turns into a debate over trivia and not about the actual point of the post!

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Well said. Would you believe that I agree 100% with your post? Lol....

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Thanks Aerandear, well in fact I do believe you.. I've rarely met a person who is harder to get a discussion going with than you, but it's pleasant to meet someone who shares one's perspectives.

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Lol, that's probably because we just think alike. You are practically the only person I have trouble starting a debate with, because it's really difficult to debate someone if you both are arguing for the same opinion.

But yeah, it is pleasant to meet someone with the same perspectives.

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