Opinion-wise yes, but looking at things from slightly different angles might be where we can elaborate on discussions. Many times I find that I'm not aware of my opinion or how to express things until I relate them to a topic. Sometimes when I read over other peoples' posts I feel like adding something, either for or against, but I haven't worded my actually perspective until I start writing it out! And then when I read it over it's like... "Ohh yeah... that's what I wanted to say!"
So I like having an excuse to write about these topics even though we fundamentally agree!

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>>Be the change you wish to see in the world<<



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Right. That makes sense, I guess. Still, since your posts tend to be much more detailed and explanatory than mine, I almost never feel like I should add something.

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I tend to go rambling... sometimes I wonder if people bother to read another post by me - or if they do, they will follow my twisted, confusing mind-patterns
Perhaps if I tried to shorten my posts, you'd have a chance to speak out as well?

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Lol, maybe. But I enjoy reading your posts anyways. I always take the time to read them.

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I must thank you once again for your compliments, and with that I shall resign from this thread. However pleasant the conversation is, it has very little to do with Gandalf now, and I can't come up with anything to add to the actual topic.

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Me neither. Talk to you somewhere else.

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Earlier in this thread it was mentioned that Gandalf isn't discussed as much as other characters. I think it was Eä that said that. I agree, and more so since Gandalf,s character is the one that is often most misunderstood, especially in Christian circles.

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"If you do not find a way, no one will."

Welcome back Sinbearer.
I meant Gandalf isn't discussed so much on A-U compared to the other characters and I miss good debates on Gandalf since his story and influence on the shaping of the fate of Middle-earth are so crucial.

Could you elaborate on how Gandalf appears to be misunderstood? I'm not sure I quite follow your reference.

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I grew up in a very conservative christian family and I have had an interesting time explaining to them how a wizard is good. They could only see him as bad because of the association of the term wizard in some cases with the occult. In explaining to them the back story and Tolkien's intent within the story I think I have helped them to see who Gandalf really is and what he stands for. But it isn't easy.

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"If you do not find a way, no one will."

Thank you for explaining. It makes sense to me now. I see what associations 'wizard' can give if taken out of context.
What is your understanding of Gandalf?

I think I'm seeing Gandalf as a helper, like in the fairy tales and folk stories... a mighty helper, but a helper nevertheless. His part in the story is assisting and guiding the hero towards his goal. Gandalf is the wise whose help is crucial for Good to win over Evil.

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Gandalf is one of the most captivating and volatile characters in LotR isn’t he Eä. Not everybody felt the same way about him. I found this quote from you that I had saved:

“I think it is also interesting that Gandalf was regarded very differently among the peoples of Middle-earth. Not only had he different names but not everybody liked his comings and goings. As a grey wanderer with powers far greater than any mortal, though only revealing very little of his mysteries, he was viewed with suspicion by most of the mortal races. Only the elves understood who and what he was, because they bore the memory of Valinor in their hearts.”

I think forces for good in the world definitely elicit that kind of controversy and diverse feeling. Didn’t Christ himself say, “I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.” Well, that was Gandalf! People were always complaining that he brought trouble with him.

I agree with you, too, that though he resorts to violence when necessary, he primarily acts as counselor, mentor and friend to the rulers of the kingdoms of men and of elves—to bring about good. Gandalf is the one person in their journey they know they can rely on. When they are in the worst situations, he is there to help them. He's like a constant thing that they can always count on.

I also notice that Tolkien focuses more on Gandalf's wisdom than he does on his spells or powers. (Of which I've heard many complaints)

Other things I find interesting are that he has no romantic attachments, always counsels for the most merciful path, and has sacrificed his entire life to bring peace to men. I see why you are fascinated with him.

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"If you do not find a way, no one will."

I like the one that says "Bringer of Ill news."

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Faith isn't the ability to believe long and far into the misty future.
It's simply taking God at His Word and taking the next step Joni Erickson Tada

It is interesting, because I have always viewed Gandalf's many names as a connection to what people connect with him. If someone were to call him a "Bringer of Ill-News" then I would assume that person has not had many good experiences with Gandalf, or else has not heard of the good Gandalf has done.

I also find it interesting that the different shadings of colour describe the powers that he has. Gandalf the Grey tells me that he is not quite up there. He is in between the lowest tier, black, and the highest, white.

I don't believe that the colours actually describe the power that he has--If I recall right, from reading Of the Istari, he was the second or third most powerful of the five wizards, after Saruman and perhaps Allatar as well. The colours don't really portray that because of the five Istari, the colours are White, Grey, Brown, and Blue. They don't exactly seem to be the colours that would've been chosen if they were meant to describe the power that the wearer possessed.

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Hmm... that's interesting. Thanks for sharing that, because I had no idea. At any rate, how is it that Gandalf changes from grey to white then? That's probably a rather obvious question, but I just can't seem to remember.

I don't remember it being addressed in the books, but I think the answer might be in his statement



Perhaps he was somehow 'assuming' the mantle of Saruman, taking his place in more than just power, but also symbolism or something.

Sorry, my thoughts are in a jumble about this, as with everything, so I'm afraid that that might not make sense to anyone without my deranged mind. If it's not, I'll try to sort it out and explain it in a somewhat clearer manner.

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