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Post subject: Saruman by Fangorn Forest Posted: June 13th, 2006, 8:47 pm |
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Joined: 13 June 2006 Posts: 1
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Okay...I'd like to know. Was it Saruman or Gandalf by the edge of Fangorn Forest? It almost seems like Tolkien wrote as it could be either one, because the horses sounded "happy" according to Legolas, (Gandalf), but the old man did not acknowledge Aragorn or anything. Who was it?
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Post subject: Posted: June 14th, 2006, 4:03 pm |
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Joined: 01 June 2006 Posts: 8449 Location: Adragonback
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Well, Gandalf says later that it was most certainly not him, so it must have been Saruman. Though I can't imagine why.
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Post subject: Posted: June 14th, 2006, 5:24 pm |
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Joined: 10 September 2005 Posts: 5839 Location: P3X-774, Rohan, Moya, or my TARDIS
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Hmmmmm. I don't know. I have wondered this too, and the only conclusion that I've come to is that it is not Gandalf.
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Post subject: Posted: June 15th, 2006, 2:15 am |
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Joined: 15 June 2006 Posts: 2053 Location: south-eastern dungeons in Mt. Doom
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noone can really be sure anymore...but i do think it was sauroman...the only contradicting evidence is that "the horses sounded happy"..or something of the sort, but i do believe that sauroman had the ability to appear beautiful and trustworthy to others i dont know if he maintained those abilities with beasts, but then why would he apply such abilities to horses..aaaah someone help me im confusing myself again
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Post subject: Posted: June 15th, 2006, 11:22 am |
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Joined: 10 September 2005 Posts: 5839 Location: P3X-774, Rohan, Moya, or my TARDIS
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Yes, I had forgotten about his ability to attract people. Perhaps he wanted the horses to sound happy, as a opposed to tottaly freaked out of thier minds, so that Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli would not attack.
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Post subject: Posted: June 15th, 2006, 12:17 pm |
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Joined: 03 June 2006 Posts: 5673 Country:
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Interesting thoughts..
I'm going to check the book immediately.. I've always loved this mysterious sequence
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It doesn't matter you don't believe in God, He believes in you.
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Post subject: Posted: June 15th, 2006, 1:41 pm |
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Joined: 15 June 2006 Posts: 2053 Location: south-eastern dungeons in Mt. Doom
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yes...thank you for untangling me from my mind
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Post subject: Posted: June 17th, 2006, 7:24 pm |
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Joined: 03 June 2005 Posts: 13144 Location: Heaven: Rockin' with Severus Snape Country:
Gender: Female
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I do not think Tolkien's description of the old man is enough to directly point to Saruman or Gandalf.
There is the fact that the man did not reply to Aragorn's question and that the horse's fled that could suggest that it was Saruman.
But there is also the fact that Gimli quote's the description of Saruman given them by Éomer: he walks about like an old man hooded and cloaked. This also leads us to believe that it could have been Saruman.
Then Aragorn says that the man had not a hood, but a hat just as Gandalf had. Later Legolas also mentions that the horse's could have fled due to sudden gladness for some reason or another.
So, I think it could go either way, even if Gandalf mentioned that it couldn't have been him. You never know...
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Post subject: Posted: June 24th, 2006, 2:12 am |
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Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 36 Location: In My Mind
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I think it was peobably Saruman. Saruman could have certain abilities similar to Sauron's (e.g. Anattar) to change the atmosphere and ACT kind, yet be something completely different (maybe a manipulative murderous freak, no?).
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Post subject: Posted: June 28th, 2006, 10:24 pm |
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Joined: 23 June 2006 Posts: 9 Location: Minneapolis, MN
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i was always sketchy about this part. maybe Tolkien WANTED us to be confused?
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Post subject: Posted: June 29th, 2006, 11:47 am |
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Joined: 03 June 2005 Posts: 13144 Location: Heaven: Rockin' with Severus Snape Country:
Gender: Female
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He probably did.
Or maybe he made it so that some of us would think one thing and others would think another so that we could have these discusssions.
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Post subject: Posted: June 29th, 2006, 12:03 pm |
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Joined: 01 June 2006 Posts: 8449 Location: Adragonback
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Haha, maybe so! You never know with Tolkien!
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Post subject: Posted: June 30th, 2006, 3:37 pm |
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Joined: 03 June 2005 Posts: 13144 Location: Heaven: Rockin' with Severus Snape Country:
Gender: Female
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Yeah... he was a genious.
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Post subject: Posted: June 30th, 2006, 9:01 pm |
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Joined: 10 September 2005 Posts: 5839 Location: P3X-774, Rohan, Moya, or my TARDIS
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Well. I was thinking. Gandalf forgot his own name! Its quite possible he didn't remember walking at the edje of the forest. My parents forget thing like that all the time, and they're only about 45. How old is Gandalf? Three hundred lives of men? That's pretty old.........
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Post subject: Posted: July 1st, 2006, 11:43 am |
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Joined: 03 June 2005 Posts: 13144 Location: Heaven: Rockin' with Severus Snape Country:
Gender: Female
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That's a different way to look at it Nauriel! I completely forgot about that. That makes it 50/50 again as to who it was...
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Post subject: Posted: July 1st, 2006, 2:45 pm |
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Eä |
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Joined: 04 June 2005 Posts: 12592
Gender: Female
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I'm not sure about this either, it's left as a mystery, but to support Nauriel.. When Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli meet Gandalf for the first time after he has become the White he doesn't remember his old name right away:
Quote: "'Gandalf', the old man repeated, as if recalling from old memory a long disused word. 'Yes, that was the name. I was Gandalf.' [...] 'Yes, I am white now', said Gandalf. 'Indeed I am Saruman, one might almost say, Saruman as he should have been." [The White Rider, TTT]
He has Saruman's powers when he walks in Fangorn Forest, but he has not yet been recognized as Gandalf which could explain why he doesn't answer in the first place.
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