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Saruman by Fangorn Forest
http://www.arwen-undomiel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8966		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Aranethon [ June 13th, 2006, 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Saruman by Fangorn Forest
Okay...I'd like to know. Was it Saruman or Gandalf by the edge of Fangorn Forest? It almost seems like Tolkien wrote as it could be either one, because the horses sounded "happy" according to Legolas, (Gandalf), but the old man did not acknowledge Aragorn or anything. Who was it?
Author:  Meldawen [ June 14th, 2006, 4:03 pm ]
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Well, Gandalf says later that it was most certainly not him, so it must have been Saruman. Though I can't imagine why.
Author:  Nauriel Rochnur [ June 14th, 2006, 5:24 pm ]
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Hmmmmm. I don't know. I have wondered this too, and the only conclusion that I've come to is that it is not Gandalf.
Author:  Mornie utulie [ June 15th, 2006, 2:15 am ]
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noone can really be sure anymore...but i do think it was sauroman...the only contradicting evidence is that "the horses sounded happy"..or something of the sort, but i do believe that sauroman had the ability to appear beautiful and trustworthy to others i dont know if he maintained those abilities with beasts, but then why would he apply such abilities to horses..aaaah someone help me im confusing myself again
Author:  Nauriel Rochnur [ June 15th, 2006, 11:22 am ]
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Yes, I had forgotten about his ability to attract people. Perhaps he wanted the horses to sound happy, as a opposed to tottaly freaked out of thier minds, so that Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli would not attack.
Author:  Will [ June 15th, 2006, 12:17 pm ]
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Interesting thoughts..

I'm going to check the book immediately.. I've always loved this mysterious sequence :bounce:
Author:  Mornie utulie [ June 15th, 2006, 1:41 pm ]
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yes...thank you for untangling me from my mind
Author:  Larael [ June 17th, 2006, 7:24 pm ]
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I do not think Tolkien's description of the old man is enough to directly point to Saruman or Gandalf.
There is the fact that the man did not reply to Aragorn's question and that the horse's fled that could suggest that it was Saruman.
But there is also the fact that Gimli quote's the description of Saruman given them by Éomer: he walks about like an old man hooded and cloaked. This also leads us to believe that it could have been Saruman.
Then Aragorn says that the man had not a hood, but a hat just as Gandalf had. Later Legolas also mentions that the horse's could have fled due to sudden gladness for some reason or another.
So, I think it could go either way, even if Gandalf mentioned that it couldn't have been him. You never know...
Author:  Kanakavallee [ June 24th, 2006, 2:12 am ]
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I think it was peobably Saruman. Saruman could have certain abilities similar to Sauron's (e.g. Anattar) to change the atmosphere and ACT kind, yet be something completely different (maybe a manipulative murderous freak, no?).
Author:  GinevraEowynUndomiel [ June 28th, 2006, 10:24 pm ]
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i was always sketchy about this part. maybe Tolkien WANTED us to be confused?
Author:  Larael [ June 29th, 2006, 11:47 am ]
Post subject: 
He probably did.

Or maybe he made it so that some of us would think one thing and others would think another so that we could have these discusssions. :P
Author:  Meldawen [ June 29th, 2006, 12:03 pm ]
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Haha, maybe so! You never know with Tolkien!
Author:  Larael [ June 30th, 2006, 3:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah... he was a genious. :)
Author:  Nauriel Rochnur [ June 30th, 2006, 9:01 pm ]
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Well. I was thinking. Gandalf forgot his own name! Its quite possible he didn't remember walking at the edje of the forest. My parents forget thing like that all the time, and they're only about 45. How old is Gandalf? Three hundred lives of men? That's pretty old.........
Author:  Larael [ July 1st, 2006, 11:43 am ]
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That's a different way to look at it Nauriel! I completely forgot about that. That makes it 50/50 again as to who it was...
Author:  Eä [ July 1st, 2006, 2:45 pm ]
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I'm not sure about this either, it's left as a mystery, but to support Nauriel.. When Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli meet Gandalf for the first time after he has become the White he doesn't remember his old name right away:

Quote:
"'Gandalf', the old man repeated, as if recalling from old memory a long disused word. 'Yes, that was the name. I was Gandalf.'
[...]
'Yes, I am white now', said Gandalf. 'Indeed I am Saruman, one might almost say, Saruman as he should have been."
[The White Rider, TTT]

He has Saruman's powers when he walks in Fangorn Forest, but he has not yet been recognized as Gandalf which could explain why he doesn't answer in the first place.
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