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Debate Forum
http://www.arwen-undomiel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=19277		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  ErulissëEnethNîn [ September 23rd, 2008, 6:35 am ]
Post subject:  Debate Forum
Before I start explaining what's on my mind I'd just like to say that this is not a request or inquiry to revoke the rules on the forbidden topics here on A-U. Nor is it an inquiry to start a debate section here on A-U, but it does concern debating/discussing the forbidden topics and it does concern the members of A-U. So just hear me out on this one.

Whenever the issue of whether debating the forbidden topics (religion, politics etc) should be allowed, there has always been (or so it seems to me) a want (and a need) amongst several members to be able to do so. On all sides of the issues in question. Now we all know that will not be possible here on A-U since the rules are very clear on that matter. And we respect the rules. But that doesn't take away our desire to freely debate the 'hot topics' with our fellow A-U members. So, I have an idea.

I have an unused forum that I started two years ago but it never took off. I'd be more than happy to use that forum for the members here on A-U. It could be a place where those of us who love discussing and debating religion and politics (and anything else that would fall under forbidden topics) could do so. So the reason I'm making this thread here (and not in the WWW section of the forum) is because I don't feel the need to open up the forum if there isn't a demand for it.

I don't want to open up a random debate forum that all sorts of strangers could flock to. I want to have a debate forum with the members here on A-U that I know and love. And that goes for all of you, whether we agree on the issues or not! All members of A-U would be welcome. Newbies and oldies! You can even be anonymous and sign up with a different username if you don't feel comfortable discussing such matters openly. I could set it so that you need to sign up in order to even view the forum and I could even make it so that all sign ups need admin activation (meaning no unwanted strangers will slip through). The forum is not in the directory. It will be a secure (and yet free) place for the members of A-U.

I don't know how many times discussions here on A-U have slipped into the forbidden topics and you've had to break it off or try and take it through PMs (which is not easy if the discussion was between several members). Wouldn't it be so much easier (and better) to just be able to take the topic on to the debate forum and continue on with the discussion? I don't know about you, but to me that sounds like a dream!

Like I said, I already have the forum. I could have it up and running in no time if you guys are interested. Let me know here or through PMs.

I cannot wait to get this show on the road. How about you?
Author:  Kitoky [ September 23rd, 2008, 8:55 am ]
Post subject: 
Actually, this is a very good idea, Eru. We do encourage, should members want to freely debate among fellow members FROM A-U, they may do so on another board. We can always recommend it as a sister-board for debate topics, but we strongly encourage that it not effect the community here. We don't want any grudges (as much as we claim there will be none, we can't be sure all the time) to seep their way here and make things tense.

We have never tried to take away your ability to debate, we just don't want it here. Arwen has strictly said no here, as it is her domain---but we can't exactly stop you from making your own. =)
Author:  Will [ September 23rd, 2008, 11:50 am ]
Post subject: 
Hmm my opinion is divided on this subject.

I think it's great that there could be a place only for us AUers to debate on several topics. I love to debate myself and I've experienced that debating and hearing other people's opinions on religious and political issues sharpens your own mind on that certain issue as well.

But on the other side (didn't see the 'but' coming eh? :-D ) I've experienced that debates which started civil turned out in complete wars. It is unavoidable that members with different opinions will try to convince eachother which of course will not succeed and eventually people will start to take things personal, get insulted or get into fights. Perhaps not with all debates. But it will happen. And it would be sad if members on AU will treat eachother differently because of it..

I think it's a great oppurtunity for us, debaters :) but we should not forget to look at the more negative side and its effects.

But I appreciate your new idea Eru and your willingness to put efforts in this project :)
Author:  Johnny's Fan [ September 23rd, 2008, 12:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well I think having somewhere not on AU for everyone to debate is really the only way AU members will be able to debate together, so if that's what people want, then I say it should happen.

However, with the thread that was started not that long ago - from one thread which wasn't even discussing politics/religion etc - people were receiving nasty PM's because of which side they chose to be on, and because of some of their beliefs and personal views. It also came to my attention that some of these attacks were via people not generally expected to act like that.

So, all I would say is, if this does go ahead is that everyone involved in this forum would have to be aware that there is a good chance that some people will not act accordingly and there is a very good chance that relationships may be affected. It's all very well saying people on here will act in a mature fashion, although it is clear some people will not.

Let's face it, AU isn't going to break up because this forum is available for debating. There isn't going to be a mass Exodus or anything. Sure there are going to arguments where people respect the others opinions, and there may even be little grudges that get smoothed out eventually. But there will also be some, I would imagine that are not so nice. But that is to be expected.

But I don't want to hear that people have been abusing the PM system for their own private little attacks. As that's not debating, that's just wrong.

So if there is anything that could possibly be set up for people who may receieve such PM's and can tell someone about it, I would really appreciate it. As I don't believe victims should feel guilty about passing on such PM's to Eru or any Mods on the forum.
Author:  Elanor [ September 23rd, 2008, 2:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
It sounds a great idea to me. And to be honest if people feel they can't cope with robust debate and the like then they don't need to join. Debates can also be stopped or at least warned if things are getting too heated. Lots of forums do manage to do this pretty well. I havn't seen many problems at mugglenet though they are pretty strict there.

The only thing I'd suggest would be to get a few mods with varying view points. If people feel "the management" is against them because of what they believe then things can get kind of nasty and it gives the place a bad feeling.
Author:  Will [ September 23rd, 2008, 2:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
^^ I did witness at a Forum that people who were actually mature in age were very immature in debating. Actually the whole Forum got affected by it and the Mods (which I was over there) were often accused of being not impartial or unfair.

I second everything JF said. I couldn't have said it better :)
Author:  Freya Baggins [ September 23rd, 2008, 5:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
As long as one keeps a clear head, debate forums are good clean fun. I for one am quite interested. *nods* But it would need vigilant mods and VERY strict rules to keep fights to a minimum.
Author:  Aredhel Ar-Feiniel [ September 23rd, 2008, 6:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
Johnny's Fan wrote:
However, with the thread that was started not that long ago - from one thread which wasn't even discussing politics/religion etc - people were receiving nasty PM's because of which side they chose to be on, and because of some of their beliefs and personal views. It also came to my attention that some of these attacks were via people not generally expected to act like that.

Or could be the complaining side took things way too personally because of the heated discussions.



I think this is an excellent idea, although I probably will not participate... I'll watch the action though. :)
Author:  Gilraen Ringeril [ September 23rd, 2008, 7:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
^Did he?

I think it's a great idea personally...and I second everything JF said :D haha.

I would probably join, but I don't think I would participate all that much - here & there for sure, but I also just love to watch debates in progress :D
Author:  Johnny's Fan [ September 23rd, 2008, 7:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
@ Haldy - Why would anyone not take name calling and the dissing of their religious beliefs personally, whether a heated thread was around or not? If somone PM'd me tomorrow and said nasty things about me, am I not to take it personally? Even though it was aimed at me?

Anyway....

All I was saying was, I think it's a good idea, but there needs to be someway people can feel they can forward bad PM's onto someone who can help the situation.

Finis
Author:  Kitoky [ September 23rd, 2008, 7:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
@<b>Johnny's Fan & Haldir o Lorien</b>: Let's just stop this line of conversation before it gets.... well, before it just gets.

Think future, not past.
Author:  Aredhel Ar-Feiniel [ September 23rd, 2008, 7:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
I didn't bring it up. But I agree with you completely.
Author:  Johnny's Fan [ September 23rd, 2008, 8:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
@ Kit - I apologise if things got out of hand, but I had to mention the overall subject, as I feel it concerns the topic, which is the debate forum and what might or might not be needed to make sure it's as pleasant a place to debate as possible. I never expected to have to mention it again.

But I'm sorry for continuing the discussion.
Author:  Kitoky [ September 23rd, 2008, 8:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
That's fine, let's just not go back to the argumentative format without discussing the other ideas.

Elegost mentioned Cauny had already made a 'debate forum', where is it and how is it working out so far?
Author:  Aredhel Ar-Feiniel [ September 23rd, 2008, 8:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
Rather enjoyable actually... although I haven't posted more than a few posts, I really enjoy reading through the really... informative debates.
Author:  ErulissëEnethNîn [ September 24th, 2008, 5:16 am ]
Post subject: 
I'm glad some of you are interested in the idea. I didn't know Caunion already had a forum. Where be the linkage?

I'd like to point out though that the forum I had in mind doesn't necessarily need to be strictly for debating. It could also just be casual talks and discussions on teh forbidden topics, where everyone can share their viewpoints without the worry of being challenged or attacked. There could be a debate thread on religion and there could also be a chat thread on religion. Who knows, all threads might end up as civilized and fun discussions anyhow.

I'd also like to say that if everyone who joined was able to detach themselves enough from the issue in question, they wouldn't take it personally or get offended. Flaming the issue is not flaming the person. If you take every attack on a certain issue you're passionate about as an attack on you as a person, then you're really not fit for a debate about it.

If you can accept the idea that what's true for you might not be true for everyone else and realize that their truths are just as valid as yours - then we could have incredibly rewarding and civilized debates on just about any topic under the sun. It's all about being able to separate opinion/beliefs from fact and treat others as you want to be treated yourself.

And JF, if this forum does kick off, I'd personally make sure that all members are treated with respect and let them know that they can forward any bad PMs they might have received and that the situation will be dealt with properly. Nobody should get flamed for having an opinion.
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