I think there needs to be a review on the rules and how they function on the site. As it is now the site is so focused on catering to the younger members that it's hard for older members to feel like they're allowed to even have opinions. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way. I think it makes perfect sense that there shouldn't be discussions about illegal things or swearing or very graphic subjects. I think that makes perfect sense. But I don't think it makes sense when as soon as something becomes just a little on the more adult side it gets shut down immediately. Yeah, I get that we need to keep in mind the younger users who should all be allowed to feel comfortable here. But hang on, shouldn't the older members also be allowed to feel comfortable here?

It makes perfect sense that we shouldn't bring up discussions say on abortion or other big political issues (gay marriage, death penalty, etc). I mean, that's fair enough. But I think it goes too far when everything that isn't toddler friendly is censored. Yeah, maybe a slight exaggeration, but not by much. I've been reading through some older threads and where I've been given examples on conversations that were shut down without there even being a reason for it more than "we don't want that here, it might make the younger users uncomfortable". In the actual LotR sections, yeah, why would there need to be heavier subjects brought up there? Makes sense that they don't belong there. But especially in the life section, I think the rules should be reviewed a bit. Loosened. As much as I've seen mods state that this is a Tolkien forum only, well, if that was actually true there wouldn't be any threads catering to the users everyday life. But there are those threads and those sections.

I also have opinions on the whole "no discussions, ever" rules that seem to be in effect. Just because there's a discussion going on where two people disagree doesn't mean it's going to get ugly or that anyone's mad or upset. Having discussions with people we don't necessarily agree with help us develop and give us more knowledge. It's actually a good thing. And as long as everyone's respectful I don't understand how anyone would do anything but benefit from it.

My real suggestion would be to allow there to be a thread or two where discussions and more adult topics are allowed. If the thread would be clearly marked, what would the harm be? Any younger users who would feel uncomfortable with the topics can easy as cake just not read it. I don't read all the threads on the forum, because some don't interest me. Some aren't for me. There's no problem for it. It doesn't bother me that they exist. And again, I'm not suggesting there should be threads where we can discuss drugs or binge drinking, etc. But it'd be nice if there was a thread where it was okay to enter a bit more mature discussion on heavier subjects. Or where you could mention drinking (not underage and not ridiculous amounts), or where it would be okay to bring up subjects of same-sex relationships - from a non-political point of view!

I get that we should all make sure this site is a nice place for the younger users too, but it shouldn't come at a price where older members feel like they barely belong because they're not entitled to their genuine and honest opinions.


This came out a bit more scrambled than I meant to, I'm very tired, but there it is.

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Rest in peace Carrie Fisher, the legend we didn't deserve.

I agree with pretty much all of this, apart from this part.



If same-sex relationship discussions have to go into an adult-only thread or whatever, then all relationship discussions should have to go into there. Because, well relationships are an adult topic no matter then gender or sex of the people involved.

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All by Bellatrix
Married Nymphadora Tonks 29/6/13

That's really how I feel too, but I figured since the forum has already made a clear distinction between same-sex relationships and other relationships it'd be too far a stretch to suggest equality for that already. I feel really awkward about the fact that I wouldn't be "allowed" to discuss my ex since she's a girl too, but it'd be ok for me to discuss my other ex since he's a guy. But rather than feeling like I can't even touch the subject of same-sex relationships I'd like at least somewhere to talk about it. I bat for both teams, and it feels weird that I'm not allowed to discuss one half of my romantic life.

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Rest in peace Carrie Fisher, the legend we didn't deserve.

I know what you mean.

Although, quite frankly I don't ever want to discuss my ex-boyfriend, ever. But I'm happy to talk about my ex-girlfriends but I haven't dared to try on here.

Saying that, I probably shouldn't post this but whatever. Talking about making certain members uncomfortable. There are going to be topics which have the potential to make anybody uncomfortable. Like on here it's perfectly fine to talk about heterosexual relationships. But that type of discussion can be incredibly triggering to me. But do I expect everybody in the world to just shut up about their relationships when I'm around? Oh gods no. I'm the one with the issues, I can avoid the triggering stuff if I want to. Although I am trying to make myself read it because it's been 3 years, I need to stop having panic attacks as soon as I start thinking about being trapped in a room with a man.

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All by Bellatrix
Married Nymphadora Tonks 29/6/13

Bellatrix, thank you very much for your suggestion about a separate adult thread. Your explanations are very clear, as well as the topics that would be discussed in such a separate thread.

Seren, thank you for your comment about discussing relationships, it's a very good addition.

The mods are currently discussing this suggestion, and we'll let you know as soon as possible.
And let us know if anyone has any additive or further suggestions on this topic

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Yay, I made sense!

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Rest in peace Carrie Fisher, the legend we didn't deserve.

AU is sadly dying, and it's partly because the site hasn't grown up with its members. The reluctance to broach more adult topics has alienated older members, whilst at the same time, the influx of new members dwindles because of the new fandom giant: Tumblr. Kids these days don't really get/know about forums, and I think it's counterproductive to cut off both streams of activity, old and new.

As far as the same-sex stuff, it shouldn't be an issue. At all. End of story.

EDIT: As far as trying to make waves, Bellatrix, don't be too disheartened, but I'll warn you that it's been attempted many, many times, and to no avail. So good luck, but meh.

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"Just once I’d like to ask someone for help and hear them say, 'Sure. Let’s go. Right now. No strings attached.'"

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^ By me and my SS *squiggle hugs*

I don't think AU is necessarily dead, and I don't think it can necessarily be blamed on the lack of anything catering to adults, but it's definitely quiet. And some of that definitely has to do with the restricted way adults can express themselves. I've only been a member for a few months (this time around) and I'm already feeling like maybe this isn't a place for me anymore, since the censorship is so strong I feel like I have to full-out pretend to be someone else to be allowed to post.

I'm almost 25. I have adult problems. Everything from massive period cramps to not having had sex in x amount of time to stress over not being able to pay bills or a strong sense of "I'll be alone forever" etc, etc, etc. I'm not allowed to talk about any of that. I'm not allowed to go into the rant thread and ease my mind, because the issues I'm having are usually tied in with my age: they're adult themed.

I think what bothers me most is that whenever rules are even slightly overstepped everyone starts repeating, like a mantra, over and over that AU needs to be a nice and clean place for all the younger users. It needs to keep them in mind and make sure they're all doing good.

Ok. Fair. What about the adults? I've seen claims by staff that AU is appropriate for all ages but that's not really true, is it, if we're going to be really honest. AU is for younger users where older users are allowed if they promise to not talk about their problems, inner thoughts, genuine opinions, and so on, if they are adult themed (and older users tend to have more adult issues, because hey, they're adults). Younger users don't have this problem. Younger users are allowed to speak their minds.

I've even seen younger users "get away" with making strong political statements, because apparently nobody recognizes them as such if they come from younger people, but if anyone responds to the statements to disagree or correct or explain, etc, immediately it's shut down because it's making the site an unpleasant place for the younger users.


I do love this site, but genuinely I think either it's time to state flat-out and be honest that this site is for younger users only. Or maybe there needs to be some change to the rules so older users get catered to as well. And after a long read around the boards and several conversations I know I'm not insane and that I'm the only one in the world who feels this way. I just have a complete inability to sit down and be quiet when I think something's unfair or wrong.

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Rest in peace Carrie Fisher, the legend we didn't deserve.

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^ By me and my SS *squiggle hugs*

Yeah I definitely don't think we need a TMI thread like the one on another forum I used to be a member of. I'm nearly 25 and I would get extremely uncomfortable with the sexual and VERY mature topics they used to discuss.
I think we just need threads where older users feel they can go if they do have heavier and more mature things they need to get off their chests. We're adults, not all our problems are going to be mild or "young", so to speak. I don't think anyone wants the forum to turn into some drug raving sex-board, but just knowing that IF we do need to get something off our chests, or ask something, or whatever, then we're allowed. Like, I got in a "dispute" with one of my neighbors over my smoking, I'd really like to be allowed to get that off my chest on here since no one in my family knows I smoke and I want to keep it that way (thus facebook isn't somewhere I can talk about it), but I'm not allowed. It's not something that encourages smoking or where I'm about to go "I'll just take up crack instead". It's just something I want to vent and then it'll be over.


Ideally, I think we should have at least one thread that's clearly marked 15+ (or 18+, even) where we can talk about any kinds of more mature subjects and where we don't have to feel like we're going to be scolded for wanting the same type of support/advice that the other users are entitled.

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Rest in peace Carrie Fisher, the legend we didn't deserve.

Just briefly coming in to mention the "18 and older" club (it's named something like that I don't remember). Does that seem like something you'd like to rejuvenate and post in?

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going on a journey through my old claims

In addition to Nurr's post:

We are going to respond more elaborately on your proposal Bellatrix, but a lot of the moderators, including myself, are swamped with real life stuff. So in the mean time, I would like to point out the following things, which might answer to a few of the limitations of AU that you mentioned.

First, you are perfectly allowed to discuss adult themed topics, like for example the period issues you mentioned, as long as politics and religious topics are avoided. This can be discussed in the Rant thread or any other thread in the Your Life section. Such discussions have always been accepted on AU and to our knowledge, discussions have never been shut down for the reason that the discussion was not appropriate for younger members, except for our recent post about excessive mentioning of alcohol, drugs, etc. Discussion are shut down because they are likely to turn or have turned into conflicts. First rule of discussions on AU is that members should respect each other's opinions and make sure that the discussion remains polite and doesn't get too personal.

Second, if you want to discuss matters like sex and the more 'serious' adult matters, this can be done safely in the 18+ Club. It has not been used for a very long time, but in this thread only 18+ members are allowed. Here you can discuss every topic to your heart's content, as long as it stays within the rules of AU. You can revive this club again for regular use and we could consider moving it to the Green Dragon section of the board, so that only members are able to view this thread.

These suggestions do not solve the deeper issue, namely the request to change the rules of AU and allow for more discussions about politics and religion. We will come back to this issue as soon as possible.

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O children, lift up your voice, lift up your voice,
Children, rejoice, rejoice..



It doesn't matter you don't believe in God, He believes in you.

I appreciate the response. I would also appreciate the move of the club to the green dragon so only members can read it.


*EDIT*

Or in fact, would I be allowed to start a new thread since the mod who started the old one hasn't been on for over a year and I'd like to be able to edit the members list?


And a bit of an add on to the political deal...

Not every subject that could be political is political. If I'd talk about how when I was 16 I had an abortion and I'm still feeling guilty about it (note: that's a made up example) then I'm not starting a political discussion. I'm talking about my experience and how it has affected me. If I don't start talking about what the laws or the moral says, or start arguing pro/con abortion, then I'm not being political. If I start talking about my ex-girlfriend and the fact that her mother acted very homophobic and inappropriate towards us when we announced our relationship I'm not being political. There's nothing political about that statement. The word "homophobic" doesn't make it political, it's just defining her prejudice towards us because we were in a same-sex relationship. If I started talking about our rights to get married or how right/wrong that is in the eyes of the law/public/church then I'm making it political.

All subjects have the potential of becoming political, at all times, it all depends on what you say and why you say it. I could make this post political in an instance if I start discussing the laws and morality surrounding freedom of speech and start giving examples of situations where similar things have happened and then argue from a political standpoint.

If a conversation does turn political (and I mean actually political) then it'd make sense if you want to shut it down. But just because a conversation has the possibility of turning political doesn't mean it will. I mean, at the end of the day all conversations on this forum have the possibility of turning ugly, for example. All it would take is a user for no reason joining a conversation and start bashing anyone who's in it. And then suddenly the discussion is ugly. That doesn't mean anyone who ever wants to discuss something ever again should be told not to, it meant the person who turned it ugly by bashing should be dealt with appropriately. Same goes for other discussions. If there would be a discussion of me talking about my ex-girlfriend that shouldn't be shut down because it has the possibility of turning political. And furthermore, if another user would come around and make it political then they should be told to keep from discussing politics, everyone shouldn't be told to never touch the subject again.

Genuinely it just feels like you guys would rather nip everything in the bud instead of monitoring discussions to make sure they stay within the lines. If the problem is that you're too busy then hire more moderators.

The same obviously goes for religious topics. Something can be generally religious without infringing on the faith of others.




Except I don't feel comfortable doing so since so many conversations have already been shut down because "we need to make sure this is a nice place for the younger users". And because I've seen younger users post about how uncomfortable they get whenever adult themes are mentioned. I don't want to post about that in the rant thread and then have someone come tell me it makes them uncomfortable, with the insinuation that I should stop.




Drugs I understand. Alcohol I understand to an extent. Cigarettes I don't understand. That's why I've suggested more adult threads, where one can discuss if they went out and had a few drinks with friends or that they tried a new brand of cigarettes they really like, etc. I've now been shown the adult club, however, so that's cool.




But how can you guys be the judge what is "likely" to turn into a conflict? Like I've mentioned, anything can easily turn into a conflict, but that doesn't mean we aren't allowed to post about anything, since then the whole forum would be moot. Some subjects might have more of a possibility than others, but all subjects can still turn into a conflict with one simple post. If I started bashing here (I won't though, no worries) then this would immediately have turned into a conflict.

As for not making discussions too personal that's actually all a discussion is. There usually isn't a clear-cut right or wrong, there are just different opinions based on different beliefs. Take abortion: Scientifically neither side can be proved, so whether you are pro/con it'll still be just your own opinion. Homosexuality: Scientifically neither side can be proved as fact - opinions. Which is a better movie, The Hobbit or LotR: neither can be proved as fact - opinions. Unless the discussion is what color grass is then opinions and personal reflection is what we use in discussions. Even if a subject gets "too" personal doesn't mean the discussion still can't be kept on a civil level. I get very passionate about the discussions I have (evidence: this thread) and it does get personal (obviously, if I didn't care either way why would I bother arguing for my cause?) but never does it get out of hand for me and never do I sit around at home all angry thinking "oh that user, I hate them" etc. I'm perfectly capable of having a heated discussion with someone where we disagree completely and then ten seconds later we're laughing and joking in another thread. I think most users are capable of that if they'd be given the chance. And if they're not, maybe that's something that would be more helpful to add to the rules?

Like allowing discussions, but putting a reminder in the top that "just because you disagree on a subject doesn't mean you dislike each other or that there's a conflict outside of this thread"? That's the only issue I've ever seen concerning discussions on a forum, and it'd make more sense to remind users that disagreeing on a discussion doesn't equal dislike or a personal vendetta rather than not allowing serious discussions period.


Sorry for the long post, I have a lot of thoughts.

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Rest in peace Carrie Fisher, the legend we didn't deserve.

Well, no, not true. The whole debacle about a discussion being shut down because I *mentioned* my sexuality begs to differ, and that's just one recent example. Bellatrix's post, basically, +1

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"Just once I’d like to ask someone for help and hear them say, 'Sure. Let’s go. Right now. No strings attached.'"

Hi Bellatrix

Thanks so much for your response, we greatly appreciate your thoughtful input!

Feel free to go start a new club thread in Green Dragon. We would love to encourage more discussion (just as long as it follows the rules )




The examples you gave are perfectly acceptable to post on the forum. There's nothing in the rules that say you can't do this because, it's not directly insulting or putting another member down for their beliefs. You are free to state your beliefs, as long as it does not bash another person or suggest that people that disagree with you are horrible.

In general, I just want to say, that yes, we mods have made really hasty decisions in the past regarding threads and shutting them down. We were hypersensitive to the potential of them going in a bad direction (which can be good and bad at the same time). We try in act in the best interest of ALL of our members, we don't want anyone to be attacked based on their sexual orientation or beliefs. We never want anyone to be afraid of stating their opinion, or sexual orientation, or whatever else. We just want everyone (that includes mods too ) to be treated with RESPECT.

Ellie, we're still working on your response. Sorry it's taking so long. We all have extremely busy lives and we're trying to make a group response. Thanks.

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