Ooh I can't believe I haven't joined this club before. I love Snape - I've even got the avatar to prove it



I'm pretty sure it was just Sirius who put Snape in that danger, despite Snape blaming James. Lupin (I think) tells Harry that as soon as James knew what Sirius had done he rushed to rescue Snape. So I think he did save Snape's life.


I think Dumbledore trusted Snape more than Harry to do the right course of action. Harry's more likely to do the thing that seems right at the time but will lead to problems which he hasn't foreseen. We can see in book 7 that Dumbledore was very concerned that Harry might go wrong. I think this is partly an age and experience thing. Snape is older and more experienced and so more likely to see the best course of action.
I also think that Dumbledore would not have trusted Harry to kill him - not just to protect Harry but also because Harry wouldn't have been able to do it.




We do see a sort of alliance between Snape and Filch in book 1. Filch patches up Snape's leg after he's been attached by the dog so the trio think he's in on the plan to steal the stone. Also Filch reports to Snape if people are out of bed at night instead of Dumbledore. So it seems fair enough for them to think they're friends.

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Hello fellow Snape fans. *waves* Sorry I haven't replied in a while.. real life has been really tough this week.

Oh, and welcome Elanor! It's fantastic to have another Snape fan here to discuss all the Snape-y-ness of the book series.

Soo.. I'm thinking we've killed this last topic. I've been meaning to get some questions up from CoS, but that hasn't happened yet. I'm hoping to get it up either Sunday or Monday. Until then, I wanted to ask - If you could add any scene/chapter featuring Snape to Deathly Hallows, what would it have been?

Gaah! Coming back on after soooo long. Just wanted to scream,

I LOVE SNAPE AND I WISH HE HADN'T DIED! -sobs-

Anyway, I have this awesome youtube vid to show you guys about him, but I'm not surprised if you guys have already seen it. <3

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6EnJBqxppu0

Oh, how beautiful! No, I have not seen that video before. Thanks for sharing. Are the JKR clips from her documentary? I really want to see it, but haven't had the chance.

Thanks Larael

Wow I love that video. It's really well put together and so sad
The J.K. Rowling bits are from her documentry which is really excellent. I hope you get to see it Larael.

I'm not sure what Snape scene I'd add to the DH except of course the scene where we see that Snape was never really dead and Harry thanks him for everything

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Welcome to the club Elanor - great to have another Snape fan among us!
You might be right about the werewolf-incident. It's been too long time since I've read the books, so I don't remember. And even if James was the one saving Snape's life, I can't come up with a better answer to Larael's question anyway

Thanks for sharing the vid, Juliette. I hadn't seen it before. But I was wondering why is Rowling crying at some point, did she do that in the documentary and why?

Nice to see you again Larael. Sometimes life is busy (most likely all the time!) so take it easy, and take the time you need for the questions. I think it's amazing that you have the time to do this for the club and for our entertainment.

Hmm it's not really an answer to your question but I am tempted to change Snape's death so he died fighting, either for Voldemort or Harry... after what he suffered and what he did, it seems more fitting.
But on the other hand I think it was a fitting death after all. Snape was a person who lived all his life in the shadows, in the twilight bordering good and bad. His alliances were always hard to guess and having Voldemort's snake kill him does seem fitting, the snake was Voldemort's trademark and the snake was the Slytherin totem, the house Snape was so affiliated with.

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I believe she was crying because at that point in the documentary she was visiting the flat where she first wrote Philosopher's Stone. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I beleive it was one of the preview clips that was released over the Internet before the actual documentary came out.

And thanks, Eä!

Interesting... So, both of you would have rather seen Snape live? Of course, I would've liked that as well, however, being the die-hard Lily/Snape shipper that I am, I would have loved to see more angst between the two of them. [In the memory scenes of course. ] Maybe something along the lines of Snape finding out that Lily has chosen to marry James or even just the thoughts that were running through Snape's mind as he was initiated into the DE's and was given a Dark Mark.

In general, I would've loved to see more of Snape and Lily's relationship unfold. I believe it went a lot deeper than what was put on the page, and I sort of want to know how far it did go. Lol. I love Snape and Lily angst at its best.

Oh yeah, I see, returning to her old apartment where it all started must have been emotional...

No, I wouldn't like to have seen Snape live. I like deaths in fiction! And what a life Snape would have had afterwards, he never was and never would be accepted by the general community.
True, it would have been interesting to learn more of Lily's and Snape's relationship, especially since everything Snape does subsequently throughout the series relates back to what happened in their childhood..

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But it's got to be angsty. None of that fluff business I've seen some people right. JKR would know exactly what to do. I wonder if we're going to see anything in the encyclopaedia.

And I quite agree about Snape living. It just wouldn't have worked. Sure, he didn't have a very fulfilling life, but I think it would have been just as unfulfilling to live out the rest of his days in constant discomfort with people making all sorts of assumptions about him.

I think Snape's death made everything more... meaningful. He was obviously hated from the start by the Golden Trio, and it was JK Rowling's way of tricking us.
Right from the start, he was a suspect. A lot of us still held fast to Snape, but the 6th book caught us off-gaurd.
I think we can all agree that we were shocked when Snape died, and cried [or at least really depressed] when it was confirmed Snape loved Lily Potter...
What's sad is, James Potter and Snape was like Draco Malfoy to Harry. The roles were switched, and despite what the readers want to think, it's the way it turned out. =/ James was exactly like Draco in their school years.
But then again... we can argue that James turned out for the better in the end.
My heart goes out for Severus Snape. He was a good man. <3

-Julie

P.S. You're welcome! It's one of my favorites. You have NO idea how many awesome youtube vids are out there- but that one was just amazing. =]

I'm so glad I watched it as well, because lo and behold I found the JKR documentary as well.

I think it had to happen the way it did. Sure, Lily may have had feelings for Snape at one point, but I don't think they would have ever married each other or had children. It just didn't seem like Snape's nature really. They were too different for each other, and it worked out better in the end for Lily to marry James, no matter how painful that was for Snape to realise and understand.

By the way, I've just had this... idea of sorts. It's nothing major, but I was wondering if we could change the name of our chapter-by-chapter discussions to "Snarky Chapters" or something like that. "Snarky" being defined as such: testy or irritable, short. I think this describes Snape quite well to a certain extent.

Haha.. our next Snarky Chapters will be covering Chamber of Secrets. There really isn't much Snape-y-ness in this book, so we should get through it fairly quickly.

Chamber of Secrets - Chapter 5: The Womping Willow

Short summary: Harry and Ron have arrived at Hogwarts after crashing the Weasley's flying car into the Womping Willow. Snape catches them as they are dragging their trunks past the Great Hall. [There are no specific quotes for this chapter.]

Comments/Questions:
- Why do you think JKR had Snape find Ron and Harry as opposed to another teacher discovering their absence? Do you think Snape knew something was wrong? Had he been sent by Dumbledore?
- If Snape had been sent by Dumbledore to find them, how do you think this was communicated between the two? For some reason I feel as though the two could communicate telepathically. Although, I'm probably way off the scale on that assumption as JKR never really mentions it.

Chamber of Secrets - Chapter 9: The Writing on the Wall

Short summary: The trio has just been to Nearly Headless Nick's Deathday party. As they leave Harry hears the basilisk and he persuades the other two to follow him as he follows the voice. They end up at the end of a corridor where the saying "The Chamber of Secrets has been opened. Enemies of the Heir beware" has been written on the wall. There they also find Mrs. Norris who is petrified. A few moments later they have been caught at the scene of the crime by Filch, the student body, Dumbledore, and several of the other professors.



Comments/Questions:
- Why is Snape so contradictory? He seemingly hates Harry, yet defends him here. At this point Snape's motives seem to tell us that he wants nothing more than for Harry to be expelled. [DH cannot be taken into account for this particular question.]

Later...



- After rereading this quote, did anyone find it interesting that this was directed at Snape? Could Dumbledore have had Snape's loyalty in mind at the time?

I know that's a lot to take in and discuss, but I've only got one more Snarky Chapter planned for CoS, and I'd like us to get to DH eventually. I think we drew out PS too much.

Whoa what a post, Larael
I can't wait to dive into the wizarding world once again, however, it'll have to wait. I haven't had internet in the house for over a week, but now we've finally got our own wireless connection. I have a lot to do with catching up on practical stuff so I'll get back with a decent post later on.
On Snape-related news, I can tell that I've just seen the two latest Harry Potter movies in Spanish. Ohh, how I missed Alan Rickman's divine voice but then I got to pay so much more attention to his acting and his character even when the attention wasn't on Snape.
[Where is the Alan Rickman club, by the way? Is it dead again? Perhaps someone should go on a quest with the mission of ressurrecting it... ]

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Ah well, real life does seem to happen, doesn't it? Maybe Elanor or Inwe will decide to pop in again and we can get started.

Oo, I'd love to watch HP in say, French, since that's what I'm learning, however I'd probably be rofling way too much to actually pay attention, even for the Snape-y bits.

*wanders off to search for the AR club*

Yeah, let's hope they can find time to come back!!

Now to the discussion:
When Harry (and Ron) didn't arrive with the Hogwarts train Dumbledore must have been worried. The way I see it it makes perfect sense for him to send Snape to patrol the gates of the castle and look for them. Snape is a member of the order and - as we agreed upon earlier - Dumbledore trusts him perhaps more than any on the school. So yes, I think he must have been sent by Dumbledore, however, and forgive my simple mind, I don't see any reason why they would use telepathy when they could simply exchange a few words. I don't believe in the theory about telepathy between the two, since Rowling never mentions it, but of course it is something left for each reader to form his/her own opinion about.

The other chapter is something I too have wondered about. Snape does seem to contradict himself there and also to contradict everything we have learned about him so far. Very odd.
I think I've come to the conclusion (very much influenced by the scene from the movie) that Snape is toying with them all... and sort of .. 'challenging' Dumbledore. Challenging is not the right word, but the important part of the dialogue is clearly taking place between the two. It's like Snape is testing Dumbledore in some kind of inside game they are playing, perhaps of power, perhaps of integrety, perhaps of each's version of the truth... I like the contradiction in the scene, how Snape seems to change opinions and loyalties back and forth within a moment and still no one knows where he truly stands!
And yes, I'm sure Dumbledore is referring to Snape's loyalty. It is a power struggle between the two we are witnessing in their apparently casual dialogue. They were both powerful men in very different manners. Their means of obtaining and maintaining that power and integrety were very different but their goals might have been very similar.. do you follow or am I getting way off track now? I do read a lot into the word exchange between Snape and Dumbledore, which might not have happened because I can't remember the exact chapter.

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Sorry I've been away, I've been trying to do dissertation writing. But its not happening this afternoon anyway so why not come on here?
btw I like the snarky chapters idea

Chamber of Secrets - Chapter 5: The Womping Willow

Is there any evidence that Dumbledore and Snape have telepathy going on between them? It's just I've never heard that theory before and was wondering.
I would imagine that Snape was sent by Dumbledore. Dumbledore would surely notice very quickly that Harry wasn't there and would take that more seriously than any other students absense. Not saying he wouldn't worry about another student's absense of course, just that Harry's in more danger than most. I agree with ea that it would make sense to send the person that he trusts most to do the job.

Something I thought was interesting in this chapter was that Snape "looked like Christmas had been cancelled" when he found out Dumbledore wasn't expelling Harry and Ron. Surely he would have known that Dumbledore would never expell Harry at least? Expelling him wouldn't keep him safe from Voldemorte. And it would mean he'd never learn the self defence needed to fight against him. Do you think that Dumbledore hadn't confided so much in Snape at that point? Or do you think Snape is just acting to keep up his bad guy role?

Chamber of Secrets - Chapter 9: The Writing on the Wall

Isn't the first quote from this chapter taken out of context? I could be just judging this from Stephen Fry's tone on the audio book but I'm pretty sure Snape's being sarcastic when he's saying this. As far as I remember he goes on to suggest that while it's possible they could be innocent the far more plausible explanation is that they've been up to something bad. So it seems consistent with his character.

As for the other quote I thought it was directed at Snape because he was the one saying that Harry must be up to something wrong. But its interesting to think he'd be talking about Severus' loyalty too. I don't really remember the movie scene of this, I should really watch it again.

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