The History Club

Hear ye, hear ye! All friends & lovers of history gather around...

okay... So the basic idea is to talk about history, expand each others knowledge about things and discuss about history and it`s interesting facts...



Members:

Curunir ( Founder )
Kitoky
Witch King Of Agmar
Johnny`s Fan
Daughterofkings
Ellethwen
Beriadanwen
Arwen Arianna
Elf Girl
Lady Dark Moon
Lothril
~*ArwenEvenstar*~
Sapphire
Melda Maya
Mirelenasilmeriel
Callondhaer
Elanor
Varda
Larael Greenleaf
WilliamMoseleyLuver
Shigure
Éowyn_of_Rohan
Banana_Republic
The Black Rider
Fíriel_18190
Captain Jack
Alatáriël Telemnar
timtimtimtim
Lady Èowyn
Amoniel
Treebeard
Master-of-Buckland
Aerandir

Join eventough you might not know, much but if you are interested then you have nothing to lose...

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Let him curse my name
On these blood stained pages of misery
Let him call me a tyrant so cruel
Let him curse my name, but remember the truth!

[waves]


Hi Curunir! I'd like to join if you don't mind.



In History class, we're learning about the rise of Hitler, Mussolini, and Stalin right now.

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THE HALLOWFEST 2010
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I'll join, i myself prefer roman/WW1&2 history

great! Witchy these subjects are the one`s that I like too and of course there is the medieval times too that I find somewhat interesting...

Kitoky... so your going trough WW2, hmh.. If you`d ask me about who was worst Stalin, Mussolini or Hitler then Stalin would be probably be on the top(all tough Hitler was seen as the main devil, but at least Stalin actually killed more people in his paranoia I think.... but I can`t say that Hitler was any better)

Mussolini then was nothing and what about the japanese Kitoky? I mean Hirohito wasn`t exactly a nice guy and he got away to have the longest reign in the history of Japan as an emperor even after WW2 happened...

I must add that Hannibal is one of my favourite subjects on the roman times...

and kitoky congratz for stealing my number 1 poster spot... you are obsessed aren?t ya?

_________________

Let him curse my name
On these blood stained pages of misery
Let him call me a tyrant so cruel
Let him curse my name, but remember the truth!

Lol, yes. I'm very obsessed!! But I was only able to get away with it because you guys were busy with family and Christmas. Christmas here is pretty ordinary and boring.

Yeah, Stalin was definitely the worst of totalitarian leaders --- though it is said that both Hitler and Stalin were Paranoia Schizophrenics [sp?], Stalin did more damage because he killed millions of his own men who he thought could possibly plot against him. But then....Hitler had that..."I hate Jews - let's kill them all" run so. Eep!

I'm really curious though as to how Roosevelt was able to keep Stalin in line whenever they would meet up to discuss WWII issues and what not. But then after Roosevelt died, no one was left to take on Stalin.

Emperor Hirohito is an interesting guy --- I mean, the guy was like, what? 17-18 when he became Emperor? We don't really hear much about him so I don't know much.

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the ironic thing is, if hitler had won WW2, he would take the record, and one of the fatalitys would be the original record holder

That's true --- but the one mistake Hitler made was trying to fight a two-front war with Russia and France.

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I'll join. I am really interested in English history and have a passion for World War I & II. I never really learned about the wars in school so I have watched a lot of documentaries and films. Ok, so the films may not be accurate (no offense to Americans but war films made by them tend to deviate from the truth more than British films and maybe a bit too much flag waving) but it's interesting to see how films made at the time of WWII would maybe have affected real people who went to see them. Most of them are full of propoganda (I think that's how you spell it) and people critize that but if helped the people at the time then I'm all for it!

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^ By me and my SS *squiggle hugs*

Trust me, you're completely right. Films that have the U.S. versus some other country, is obviously going to be VERY biased, and very annoying! But it still comes down to one of the main causes of World War --- Nationalism.



Again very true --- in History class, we had to do a project and make a front page of a newspaper writing propaganda and about actrocities about the enemy countries so as to convince the people living in the [your] country to support the war. It was very hard to try to find true facts and dramatize it but I think I did pretty well.

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true, true... (to Johnys points and welcome Johny`s fan...)

But... what if Hitler had never kicked off Operation Barbadorossa?(or Barbadossa) Stalin could have attacked first perhaps when he could have seen an obvious opening with the allies attacking from the west, but if Hitler hadn`t started the operation we Finns would have probably been conquered since we wouldn`t have nearly the recources to take on the Soviet Union....

So I bet that Stalin would have attacked anyway, if Hitler hadn`t...

And lucky for my people the only concract that we finns made was by Risto Ryti our president you see and we got away... of course our peace with the russians was because they would have only wasted materials after their huge attack, which was held out by the finns....

and the recources would be needed in the german front... (just looking at the situation from my people`s view...)

_________________

Let him curse my name
On these blood stained pages of misery
Let him call me a tyrant so cruel
Let him curse my name, but remember the truth!

And now I am completely lost because I have not learned those details.

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well we are here to learn aren`t we? if there is anything to clarify then ask me

_________________

Let him curse my name
On these blood stained pages of misery
Let him call me a tyrant so cruel
Let him curse my name, but remember the truth!

Well if you insist.

What are the details of Operation Bardarossa...or Barberdarossa...or B, shall we say. I do assume that it's a plan of attack on the Ally Powers?

Was Finland neutral during WWII or was fighting with the Germans?

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Ahh..

Operation Barbadossa was the attack to Russia with the forces of Germany and it`s smaller ally countries that it had consumed, then you see Finland gained it`s indepence during the year 1917 when Russia had a civil war between the Bolseviks & Royalists, eventually Bolseviks won and Finland during that time had been seperated as well...

So we had our own Civil war... The White`s versus the Red`s... The red`s were mostly labourers and workers who believed that communisim was a brighter future as the whites were the upper classes... their leader was C.G.E. Mannerheim(formerly a high ranking officer in the tsârs army...)

So... the whites won as you might expect and we had indepence actually granted(admitted) by Lenin..

I got off topic there...

So.. back to your questions...

In the year 1939 in the Molotov Ribbentrop treaty in, which Germany and the Soviets agreed not to attack each others was a secret part that was to divide eastern europe and Finland was to be the Soviets... Well 1939 the russians shot their own infantry forces near the border with their own artillery claiming that the finns did it(these were named as the Shots of Mannila) The Soviet Union attacked Finland beginning winter war in, which we lost some lands, but remained independent... the war lasted for 105 days..

Now we wanted payback and our lands back... So we went together with the Germans(we also got weaponry from them) and banged the door down, well it only resulted in attacking and then retreating. So when the Germans were pushed back and we managed to hold our ground there was a peace treaty made and we lost areas with other agreements etc... and we had to drive the germans troops out of Finland that were in Lapland. They had entered Finland trough Norway, which they had conquered.

Now followed the Lapland war, which was mostly that the germans retreated to Norway burning and destroying to slow our advance...

*long sigh*

enough?


EDIT: I forgot to menton that Mannerheim was our leader trough all of that, I mean he became presiden for a short while, but was mostly the high commander of our forces and earned the rank of Marshall of Finland in his 70th birthday.... he was also visited by Hitler that day, whom Mannerheim didn`t like since he had never approved the aid of the germans really...

he has a nickname Marski

_________________

Let him curse my name
On these blood stained pages of misery
Let him call me a tyrant so cruel
Let him curse my name, but remember the truth!

[squints and takes notes]

Yes, I think that'll do.

Thank you much Curunir.

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Wow...I'm glad people actually agree with me.

An example of Americans stretching the truth to suit themselves is Braveheart and The Patriot. Granted I haven't seen the Patriot and also Americans were not involved (on screen anyway) but from what I've heard the representation of the English leaves something to be desired. Certainly the British weren't nice to the Scottish people but I think there was a fair bit of cruelty on both sides but obviously in the film the English were the boo-hiss baddies and the Scots the heroes.

The Patriot (love it as I do) is particularly laughable when it comes to the portrayal of the British - especially Jason Isaacs as Tavington (doesn't he play baddies well?). It is also remarkable that when Mel Gibson and his band of merry men fail to regonise the "rules of war" they are seen as being quite right in doing so. Had the British resorted to such tactics in the film there would be nothing mentioned for 30 minutes about how evil the red coats were. The church burning scene I also find pretty improbable - not impossible as I am no expert - but inprobable. This begs the question what have we Brits ever done to Mel Gibson?

Anyway back to real history.

Have any of you ever seen a programme called Foyle's War? It's a TV series about a detective living in war time Britain in 1940. Not only is it a detective drama but also a war drama as you hear about so many interesting things - little known facts that most people wouldn't have heard of. For example ice cream vans were commandered by the ambulance services during WWII. Why? Too transport blood to hospitals etc. It also gives you an insight into the many different departments that most people never knew existed. There was one episode about a Dirty Tricks Department - bascially stuff that wouldn't normally be allowed but in times of great need would be used. Such as powder than could lock the wheels on cars. Handy if your a spy eh? There was also an episode about the groundbreaking surgeoon Archibald McIndoe - the man who helped pilots with plastic surgery. It really it a fantastic programme and as well as all that you really get an idea what it was like living in a normal town in World War II.

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^ By me and my SS *squiggle hugs*