A valid argument, and I admit you're right, but yes, please, let's do steer the topic back to Arwen and Aragorn.

So........anybody else have any points they want to bring up about them? Any questions, concerns, thoughts, debate topics, something that could spark discussion? Because if I'm being completely honest (which I am), I 've got nothign at the moment.

When aragorn was small he was raised as the son of Elrond and only told his name and true identity when he came of age. wouldnt that mean that he was used to arwen as hsi sister?

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"This is the hour of the Shire-folk, when they arise from their quiet fields to shake the towers and counsels of the Great. Who of all the Wise could have foreseen it? Or, if they are wise, why should they expect to know it, until the hour has struck? "

Nope. He never saw or even heard of Arwen until that day in the forest when he thoguth she was Luthien Tinuviel. Arwen lived with her grandmother, Galadriel for most of her. It's really interesting actually, because beren saw Luthien dancing and singing in the forest, and Aragorn was singing an Elvish song about her, when he came across Arwen whoom he believed to be Luthien. I remmebr him aying something like "Elrond has hidden his jewel well" or "guarded his jewel jealously" or something to that effect. Hope that answers your question.

Oh yeah, darn. Forgot clean about that Tinuviels Tears. Thanx 4 correcting me before anyone else had the chance to mock me for my mistake. Schoolboy error it was.
I feel kinda stupid now....

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"This is the hour of the Shire-folk, when they arise from their quiet fields to shake the towers and counsels of the Great. Who of all the Wise could have foreseen it? Or, if they are wise, why should they expect to know it, until the hour has struck? "

It's okay, we all make 'em.

Every time they talk about hope in the movies I snigger because of Aragorn being called "Estel" when he was young.

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I never make mistakes tho, well thats a lie, I do lol. The great thing about the LOTR movies is that no matter how popular it bacame, there were hardly any chavs around when I was in the cinema watching them for the first time. The plot is too complex. Also, why Estel? That name just doesnt sound right. Why pick Estel when there were tonnes of better noms de guerre that they could have given aragorn? 8) 8)

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"This is the hour of the Shire-folk, when they arise from their quiet fields to shake the towers and counsels of the Great. Who of all the Wise could have foreseen it? Or, if they are wise, why should they expect to know it, until the hour has struck? "

Don't worry about it. Like Firiel said, we all make 'em. I've made worse ones than that before.
Well, "estel" means hope, so that could have something to do with it. I think Tolkien gave him that name to emphasize his role as the bringer of hope in the story. Just a thought though.

Still, Elrond does doubt Aragorns ability ot become King of Gondor, therefore why would he name him Hope if Elrond feels that he cannot unify the last remnants of th efree men of middle earth. And also it just doesnt sound right. I cant put my finger on why, but it just doesnt. Feel free to disagree with me if you want to.....

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"This is the hour of the Shire-folk, when they arise from their quiet fields to shake the towers and counsels of the Great. Who of all the Wise could have foreseen it? Or, if they are wise, why should they expect to know it, until the hour has struck? "

Yeah...while Aragorn & Arwen's sstory is beautiful and lyrical, it's really not realistic. I mean, you see a girl dancing? And decide to marry her? That's pretty shallow.

I respect their love, but for that reason I prefer the Eowyn/Faramir coupling.

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There has to be (usually) some, at least a little, sacrifice made for happines. Elrond sacrificed (kind of) himself so that Arwen and Aragorn could be together, and Arwen sacrificed his immortality. Aragorn took a risk of dying when he joined the Quest for the Ring. and the becoming a king- quest, so that he could get Elrond's acceptance and marry Arwen.

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I revisited AU on Jan 14th after an almost 10-year break! The nostalgia..!

I think it's maybe over simplifying to say that Aragorn joined the Quest to marry Arwen. He would have joined it anyway, I'm pretty sure. It certainly was a factor, but it wasn't the only reason.

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I'll have to disagree with you on this one. First of all, there's a love-at-first-sight factor, which I believe in, though I know a lot of other people don't. For all you skeptics, Aragorn did not just see her and fall in love with her. He thought she was beautiful, but as he came to know her, he loved her. I remember something like "But from that hour, he loved Arwen Undomiel...." Something anyway, to suggest that he didn;t just fall in love with her right away. Whatever your reasoning be, Aragorn is NOT shallow, nor was his love for Arwen.

I agree with Firiel. Aragorn would have gone on the quest no matter what. He didn't just do it for Arwen, although I think she was definitely a factor, he was also doing it for all the people and places and things he loved in Middle-earth.

It was Hios duty as Isildurs Heir to finish th ejob his forbear had sarted but I agree with firiel. arwen was a factor as he would on the way to beating sauron he would have had to unify the kingdoms of men with him possibly as king lol.
Nice explanation Firiel. And Tinuviels Tears

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"This is the hour of the Shire-folk, when they arise from their quiet fields to shake the towers and counsels of the Great. Who of all the Wise could have foreseen it? Or, if they are wise, why should they expect to know it, until the hour has struck? "

Thank you, that is a good point from you as well. His main goal in helping with the quest was to undo the wrongs of Isildur, his ancestor. He wanted to bring honor back. Also, he wanted to unite the peoples of Middle-earth. He was a strong enough leader to do it. Aragorn acted mostly out of a desire for the good of everyone rather than selfish motives, and he was rewarded in the end by all his desries being fulfilled, being able to be with Arwen.

Can I really, in all seriousness follow that?

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"This is the hour of the Shire-folk, when they arise from their quiet fields to shake the towers and counsels of the Great. Who of all the Wise could have foreseen it? Or, if they are wise, why should they expect to know it, until the hour has struck? "

Why can you not?

(sorry this post is so short don't kill me moddies)