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 Post subject: suicide?
PostPosted: October 27th, 2006, 4:29 am 
Istari
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something that's always had me a little confused is the manner of aragorn's death. in the story of aragorn and arwen as told in appendix a, it says that aragorn "felt the approach of old age" and so went to the house of the kings, laid himself down and "fell into sleep".

it could be that he just knew he was gonna die so decided to do it in the house of kings, but i'm not so sure - it says arwen "knew well what he intended" and aragorn says "if i will not go now, i must go perforce", suggesting that its a deliberate decision of aragorn's to end his life at that moment before it is taken from him.

i'm not saying he actively killed himself, but it seems he had some strange control over his own death and surely that's a form of suicide.

any thoughts?

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PostPosted: October 27th, 2006, 10:19 am 
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Aragorn is a descendant of the Edain, the three houses of men who allied themselves with the Elves during the War against Morgoth, and who later became the Numenorians. Those kings always could tell when it was their 'time' and would let themselves die, accepting it, because it was also the time their sons were in the prime of life normally, too. So, I don't think it was really "suicide"...it's more of letting yourself die, instead of fighting it to live as long as possible.

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PostPosted: October 28th, 2006, 7:21 am 
Istari
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I agree, I don't think it was suicide :-D


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PostPosted: October 28th, 2006, 1:49 pm 
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If Tolkien condemns Denethor for his suicide I doubt that he would have Aragorn commit suicide.


This is somewhat religious so if it needs to be edited/deleted, I understand.

Tolkien was Catholic and in some Catholic lives of Saints, the saint will know when they're going to die and prepare for it. Perhaps Tolkien was drawing on that.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 28th, 2006, 3:45 pm 
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Well said Firiel. I think that he knew that he would die, so, yeah, just prepared himself for it. I cry when I read that btw. :'(

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PostPosted: October 29th, 2006, 10:40 am 
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I'm not surprised! I'm not saying I do, but I'm not saying I don't either :-D


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PostPosted: October 29th, 2006, 5:49 pm 
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Hm? I'm afraid I don't follow you.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 29th, 2006, 7:40 pm 
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I agree I don't think it was suicide. I believe that suicide is a rather un-noble thing and Aragorn being the noble king probably wouldn't do such a thing.


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PostPosted: October 29th, 2006, 11:47 pm 
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I think I'm going to side with everyone else on this one. The fact that Aragorn was one of the Dunedain basically gave him the power to end his own life when he wished. He wanted it to be a calm and peaceful death, whilst surrounded by his loved ones. Therefore he could say everything he wished and decide when to take his final breath.

I can't help asking wouldn't it be hard to almost end your own life that way? It's not like your killing yourself with a weapon. You're basically just falling asleep. Almost a scary thought, isn't it?

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PostPosted: October 30th, 2006, 3:35 pm 
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It's not suicide.

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PostPosted: October 30th, 2006, 5:32 pm 
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Yeah Larael it would be a kinda scary thing to do, as you get older I'm certain that the idea of death gets easier.


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PostPosted: November 2nd, 2006, 1:51 pm 
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I think rather than calling it suicide, you could just say that Argorn felt that it was his time to go and join his decendants. The fact that he feels the approach of old age informs us that he felt as though his time on earth was over, and the fact that Arwen knew what it was he was to do simply tells us that her instinct told her that Aragorn was to join his decendants and leave Middle-Earth.

Take it literally.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: November 2nd, 2006, 8:28 pm 
Vala
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Yes, I agree. The dunedain were able to shoose when they died. They could live forever if they wanted, I gues, but it would not be like an elf. I assume they would shrivel up and keep getting older and feebler.


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PostPosted: November 2nd, 2006, 9:20 pm 
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I'm sorry, but does anyone have any support for the idea that the Dunedain can just stop living?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: November 2nd, 2006, 9:27 pm 
Vala
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It says somewhere that the dunedain can chhose the time of thier death. I don't think this means that when they are in the prime of thier life they can decide to die. I think it means that when they start deteriorating from natural causes, they can choose whe to die.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: November 3rd, 2006, 11:57 am 
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Well that's true. I don't believe that a Dunedain would choose to die unless they felt that they were becoming weaker. It's as though they can feel that they're time on earth is ready to end and that they can prepare to meet their predecessors. They would prefer to move into the next life because of the feeling of fatigue and weakness.

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