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PostPosted: November 5th, 2006, 1:01 am 
Maia
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I actually didn't know this about Aragorn or the Dunedain before reading this thread, so I guess now I just havta agree with everyone else!
:p

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PostPosted: November 12th, 2006, 3:14 pm 
Ringwraith
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I disagree that Aragorn killed himself, he had the power to go at will, just like the Numenorean kings of old.

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PostPosted: November 12th, 2006, 5:25 pm 
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Frodos-Guide wrote:
I think rather than calling it suicide, you could just say that Argorn felt that it was his time to go and join his decendants. The fact that he feels the approach of old age informs us that he felt as though his time on earth was over, and the fact that Arwen knew what it was he was to do simply tells us that her instinct told her that Aragorn was to join his decendants and leave Middle-Earth.

Take it literally.


Join his decendants? You mean his ancestors?

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PostPosted: November 30th, 2006, 8:18 pm 
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I feel that it is not suicide as the long span of life was a gift and also as has already been said, the kings of old did it and they did not suffer an undignified death, dotard and frail.

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PostPosted: December 10th, 2006, 4:48 pm 
Rider of Rohan
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I don't think that Aragorn killed himself, but then again I never really heard of this before.


Spare me! I have a christmas song stuck in my head!!! And I can't get it out!!!

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PostPosted: December 10th, 2006, 7:16 pm 
Istari
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Ok.. I spare u.I think that it is not suicide as I have said before, Aragorn was given a gift of long life and like the numenorean Kings of old, could return it if he wanted to. This made sure that he ruled whilst still in vigour of mind an dbody.

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PostPosted: December 12th, 2006, 2:31 am 
Ent
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I second that. I don't think it was a suicide because Aragorn is not the person to opt for suicide.*I think* :P

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 Post subject: Death with dignity and independence....
PostPosted: November 5th, 2007, 8:39 pm 
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In the western USA, when indians used to roam as nomads, the old would say goodbye and go out behind a tree and die. Allowing the process of death to happen with dignity is a lot different than suicide. We do this today even. My grandma, who I loved and was really close to, just stopped eating and drinking. I remember going in and saying, "Grandma, if you don't drink you will die." And she looked at me and I understood exactly what she said although she didn't say a word, "That is the whole idea Brent! Its time. We've said our goodbyes and this is the last one. Goodbye."

Just because she knew that death was close and decided that the time was now doesn't mean she commited suicide. I know her. We talked many hours about death, sometimes laughing till we cried. And she would never have commited suicide. Strange though....death is never quite as jolly a fellow when he is knocking at your door.

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PostPosted: November 6th, 2007, 8:52 am 
Vala
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Well, I was going to state my opinion, then read through the thread and realized that I had been the first to reply. With exactly what I was about to say just now.

So instead, I'm going to clear a few things up.

Nauriel Rochnur wrote:
Yes, I agree. The dunedain were able to shoose when they died. They could live forever if they wanted, I gues, but it would not be like an elf. I assume they would shrivel up and keep getting older and feebler.


The Dúnedain could not live forever if they wanted. That's shown by the death of a number of Númenorean kings who wanted to live as long as possible--they saw their mortality as a curse, as opposed to a gift, and strove for the immortality of the Elves, and ended up dying of old age.

Princess Of Ithilien wrote:
Frodo's Guide wrote:
I think rather than calling it suicide, you could just say that Argorn felt that it was his time to go and join his decendants. The fact that he feels the approach of old age informs us that he felt as though his time on earth was over, and the fact that Arwen knew what it was he was to do simply tells us that her instinct told her that Aragorn was to join his decendants and leave Middle-Earth.

Take it literally.



Join his decendants? You mean his ancestors?


Rofl. :P

And just to clarify something--I don't think that the Númenoreans could just 'go at will'. I think that it was more like they could choose to let themselves die after they reached an 'appointed' time. I mean, otherwise, Aragorn's grandfather (Arador) could hardly have been 'captured by hill-trolls and slain'. Instead, he could've just let himself die when it was clear that he wasn't going to escape.

I think that instead, the Dúnedain could choose to let themselves die within a certain timeframe--between the time 'appointed' to begin it, and their death, if that makes any sense.

I don't presume to know how that timeframe begins, exactly, but Aragorn felt the time of his death, and went and let himself die. Several Númenorean kings, though, fought on and lived as long as they could, even though they were past the usual time (and they were steadily getting weaker). I would say that it is possible for the Dúnedain to live past the 'time of their death' if they wish to, but the result would be a rather undignified life after that point, as age would begin to have a very noticeable affect on them.

But then, that's just my opinion. And it sounds confusing.

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 Post subject: A time to die...
PostPosted: November 6th, 2007, 11:27 am 
Gondorian
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Interesting thoughts Aerandir! It seems pretty logical to me. And there is a "time to die". I totally believe in the destiny part of it. Look what happened to the ancient King Hezekiah when he was allowed to live past his "appointed time". It did not turn out good.

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PostPosted: November 7th, 2007, 2:54 pm 
Rider of Rohan
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Well, he was pretty old, he's mortal, he died

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PostPosted: November 7th, 2007, 2:54 pm 
Rider of Rohan
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Well, he was pretty old, he's mortal, he died

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PostPosted: November 7th, 2007, 2:59 pm 
Vala
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Well, the question, silfa, was whether or not how he died was suicide, since it could be understood to have been suicide.

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PostPosted: November 13th, 2007, 2:45 am 
Ent
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i dont think it was suicide.he didnt take his own life,he let himself die because he knew it was his time of dying and he accepted that.

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PostPosted: November 13th, 2007, 12:00 pm 
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It was not suicide. He felt the approach of old age. What more needs to be said? There is no need for me to elaborate, for everything has already been said.

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 Post subject: Re: suicide?
PostPosted: November 14th, 2007, 5:38 pm 
Ringwraith
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ethelfleda wrote:
something that's always had me a little confused is the manner of aragorn's death. in the story of aragorn and arwen as told in appendix a, it says that aragorn "felt the approach of old age" and so went to the house of the kings, laid himself down and "fell into sleep".

it could be that he just knew he was gonna die so decided to do it in the house of kings, but i'm not so sure - it says arwen "knew well what he intended" and aragorn says "if i will not go now, i must go perforce", suggesting that its a deliberate decision of aragorn's to end his life at that moment before it is taken from him.

i'm not saying he actively killed himself, but it seems he had some strange control over his own death and surely that's a form of suicide.

any thoughts?


That's an interesting thought.

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