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PostPosted: January 10th, 2007, 5:13 am 
Vala
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Lol, Frodos-Guide--PJ's word isn't law in Tolkien's universe. His ideas aren't always correct (such as in the case of the Mouth of Sauron in the RotK EE--they messed that up and blatantly contradicted things that Tolkien stated in the books). Just because PJ said Eldarion was the last one doesn't mean that he was. Eldarion was the last one with Noldorin blood in his veins (maybe...there might have been others who were descended indirectly from Elros), but as Eruhin said, Imrahil of Dol Amroth possessed Sindarin/Silvan blood, and there may have been others, too.

So far as I know, there is never any mention of the Avari (as in, all of them) leaving Middle-earth. I don't think there are very many mentions of them even in The Silmarillion after the Noldor, Teleri, and Vanyar travel to Valinor.

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PostPosted: January 10th, 2007, 11:47 am 
Dunadan
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well the UF say that amroth was the son of galadriel (at least this is one possibility) so he had nolorin blood within him

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PostPosted: January 10th, 2007, 2:14 pm 
Vala
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The Unfinished Tales of Numenor and Middle-earth says that that was one idea, but it was never established by Tolkien whether he was going to go with that idea or the idea that Amroth was the ruler of Lothlorien before Galadriel and Celeborn came.

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PostPosted: January 11th, 2007, 2:14 pm 
Ent
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oo.

Well isn't Galadriel Arwen's Grandmother? So her son must have left for Valinor way before Eldarion was born. Unless Galadriel's son was born of a human father too...?

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PostPosted: January 12th, 2007, 3:30 am 
Vala
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What? Galadriel is married to Celeborn. He's an elf, not a human. It's never confirmed that they have a son (the possibility was that Amroth was their son, but it was also a possibility that he was the original ruler of Lorien before they came, and was completely unrelated). Their only confirmed child was Celebrían, the wife of Elrond Peredhel.

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PostPosted: January 13th, 2007, 4:45 am 
Rider of Rohan
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Well I'm surprised no one mentioned about the other children Aragorn and Arwen had. They had 2 other daughters apart from Eldarion. Therefore one of the sisters can be classified as being the last one to receive the bloodline of Numenor and Elven blood.

We can make this assumption of one of the sisters being the smaller than the rest of the children, because, since Eldarion took up the reign he must have been the oldest; thus leaving one of the two sisters the youngest.

Now, if we recall back to the Second Age, at some point in Numenor, there was introduced the law that female heirs could exist and therefore Queens could rule Numenor.

Therefore we can say the probably, if Eldarion died without any children, one of Aragorn's daughters would take up the throne of Gondor and rule in his stead.

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PostPosted: January 13th, 2007, 5:17 pm 
Gondorian
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Eärendil The Mariner wrote:
Well I'm surprised no one mentioned about the other children Aragorn and Arwen had. They had 2 other daughters apart from Eldarion.


Actually Arwen and Aragorn had four daughters, but none of their names are known. :)

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PostPosted: January 14th, 2007, 4:18 am 
Rider of Rohan
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Quote:
Actually Arwen and Aragorn had four daughters, but none of their names are known.


No as far as I'm concerned he had at least two daughters. Can u give any quote where you found information about 4 daughters please?

Thanks.

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PostPosted: January 14th, 2007, 10:45 am 
Vala
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Eärendil The Mariner wrote:
Now, if we recall back to the Second Age, at some point in Numenor, there was introduced the law that female heirs could exist and therefore Queens could rule Numenor.

Therefore we can say the probably, if Eldarion died without any children, one of Aragorn's daughters would take up the throne of Gondor and rule in his stead.

Thanks.


I don't agree with you. We're not talking about Numenor here, but Gondor. Gondor never had any instances of a ruling queen. Ever. So I don't think that if Aragorn and Arwen had not had a son that one of their daughters would have become ruler. That was a tradition of Numenor, not of Gondor.

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PostPosted: January 14th, 2007, 2:55 pm 
Rider of Rohan
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Quote:
I don't agree with you. We're not talking about Numenor here, but Gondor. Gondor never had any instances of a ruling queen. Ever. So I don't think that if Aragorn and Arwen had not had a son that one of their daughters would have become ruler. That was a tradition of Numenor, not of Gondor.


Yes true. Gondor never had a ruling Queen. But still, you are missing the point here. Ok, ruling Queens were a tradition of Numenor so? Gondor still took up the same tradition of Numenor. It is said throughout the Appendix in ROTK that the power and glory of Numenor was vanishing in the peoples of Gondor. And after all, why would Elendil refuse to re-apply the traditions of his birth place into Exile>

After Elendil and his sons escaped, they established their kingdoms in the name of their land and would have applied the same tradition (like for instance, Isildur planting the seed of the White Tree that was once in Numenor), as happened with the Kingship.

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PostPosted: January 14th, 2007, 4:11 pm 
Vala
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That doesn't mean that they adopted all of the traditions of Numenor. By the time that Gondor would've had occasion to have a ruling Queen, there wasn't anyone alive (by quite a while) who had come from Numenor. It is only a possibility, not a certainty, that they would've given one of Aragorn's daughters the crown if there had been no son. Personally, I don't think it's a very likely possibility, either.

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PostPosted: January 15th, 2007, 6:30 am 
Rider of Rohan
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Well after all Aragorn was the King. And HE only could decide who rules in his stead.

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PostPosted: January 15th, 2007, 2:57 pm 
Vala
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Yes. So it all comes down to whether or not one individual chooses to invoke an ancient (over 3000-years old!) custom and let his daughter rule after him or not.

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PostPosted: January 15th, 2007, 3:28 pm 
Rider of Rohan
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The point is this. Aragorn had an heir and it was Eldarion. Since nothing is given about Eldarion, I am imagining that if he had no children, the heirloom would pass to the elder sister. Though if he had children, then it would pass to the oldest son or daughter.

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PostPosted: January 16th, 2007, 4:17 am 
Vala
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I don't know whether or not the Eldest daughter would get it. That was something that hadn't happened in more than three thousand years. They might have elected someone else to the position instead.

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PostPosted: January 16th, 2007, 12:45 pm 
Ent
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I must say that i agree with ETM. The point is, that is Eldarion had no children, then the rule of Gondor would have to pass to someone. Although the tradition was 3000 years old, it does not mean that a queen is an unlikley ruler. Just look at the real world and women's rights for example. I believe that if Eldarion had not been born, then he would have chosen one of his daughters to become heir.

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