Rules      FAQ       Register        Login
It is currently March 28th, 2024, 3:59 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 62 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: The Last Ship to Sail from Middle Earth?
PostPosted: January 31st, 2007, 3:18 pm 
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
User avatar

Joined: 23 November 2006
Posts: 107
Location: Middle earth with Strider

Offline
this is the closest forum i could find to post this in and this is a serious question for people more learned than me -
When Frodo and Bilbo are given a place on the elven ship sail from middle earth, it is said to be the last to sail from Middle earth- hence Galadriel and Elrond are on it - but later on i read that Legolas at last followed the desire of his heart after King Elessar had died and sailed over the sea into the west with Gimli.

How could the one Frodo went on be the last if Legolas sailed with Gimli into the west all those years later????

Is it the last elven ship to sail from middle earth or not??

_________________
Smile till u laugh, laugh till u cry :P


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: January 31st, 2007, 4:24 pm 
Dwarf
Dwarf
User avatar

Joined: 18 December 2006
Posts: 50

Offline
I think that in the book Tolkien doesn't say that the last ship is the one where Frodo boarded, I think that you heard it in the movie.

_________________
"Even the smallest person can change the course of the future".
Image
Image


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: January 31st, 2007, 6:15 pm 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: 04 June 2005
Posts: 12592
Gender: Female

Offline
No actually Tolkien didn't refer to it as the last Elven ship in the books. Elrond, among others, sailed into the West with another ship as far as I remember.
The way Legolas and Gimli came to the Undying Lands is a different story though. Legolas built a boat/ship to take both of them over the sea, so it wasn't an "official departure". The were both granted a safe passage by the Valar, otherwise they wouldn't have been able to leave the circles of the world and find their way. :angel:

_________________
>>Be the change you wish to see in the world<<
Image

Image
Banner credit: Shadowcat & Nurrantiel Mashiara


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: February 1st, 2007, 3:03 am 
Vala
Vala
User avatar

Joined: 02 January 2006
Posts: 5728
Location: Mithlond
Country: Slovakia (sk)

Offline
The ship that took Galadriel, Elrond, Gandalf, and Frodo over the Sea was the last one to leave that carried High Elves on it--the last of the Noldor left on it (in RotK, Tolkien says most of them left on it, but I think it's in The Unfinished Tales that he says they all left on that ship, those few that were left.

But I don't think it was the last ship. It might have been the last one to carry Noldor, but I'm sure there would still be Silvan and Sindarin elves who would sail over the sea.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: February 1st, 2007, 1:35 pm 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: 04 June 2005
Posts: 12592
Gender: Female

Offline
Hmm.... did Círdan leave on the ship? I'm not sure if Tolkien mentions it. But if he did so, it could be considered the last Elven ship to leave Middle-earth, since he was the lord of the Grey Havens.

Actually, I've thought of it.. the last Elven ship.. more poetically. Like a metaphor for the elves leaving Middle-earth because of the age of men, more than an exact ship that was said to be the very last.

_________________
>>Be the change you wish to see in the world<<
Image

Image
Banner credit: Shadowcat & Nurrantiel Mashiara


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: February 16th, 2007, 7:04 am 
Vala
Vala
User avatar

Joined: 02 January 2006
Posts: 5728
Location: Mithlond
Country: Slovakia (sk)

Offline
Eä wrote:
Hmm.... did Círdan leave on the ship? I'm not sure if Tolkien mentions it. But if he did so, it could be considered the last Elven ship to leave Middle-earth, since he was the lord of the Grey Havens.

Actually, I've thought of it.. the last Elven ship.. more poetically. Like a metaphor for the elves leaving Middle-earth because of the age of men, more than an exact ship that was said to be the very last.


Yeah, Círdan did leave on that ship, at least as far as I remember it. I'm pretty sure it was the last ship to leave from the Grey Havens, though.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: February 17th, 2007, 11:01 am 
Dunadan
Dunadan
User avatar

Joined: 06 January 2007
Posts: 413
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Offline
Aerandir wrote:
I'm pretty sure it was the last ship to leave from the Grey Havens, though.

And what about Legolas and Gimli? By the way I think it was the last ship because no one knew how to build a ship after Cirdan left. Couldn't that be possible?

_________________
><>Son of God, brother of Jesus. I've got the best family I could have imagined! Saved by his mercy and love. What else could I wish for?<><
Image
Image


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: February 17th, 2007, 11:13 am 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: 04 June 2005
Posts: 12592
Gender: Female

Offline
^I'm not sure this is what you are asking, but Legolas and Gimli built their own ship, so they didn't have to have Cirdan to build it for them. I don't know where they left from, but it could be the Grey Havens since it is situated on the Western shore of Middle-earth, relatively close to the Undying Lands.
But yes, it sounds reasonable that there wouldn't be built more Elven ships after Cirdan left because he was the shipwright. :-)

_________________
>>Be the change you wish to see in the world<<
Image

Image
Banner credit: Shadowcat & Nurrantiel Mashiara


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: February 17th, 2007, 11:17 am 
Vala
Vala
User avatar

Joined: 02 January 2006
Posts: 5728
Location: Mithlond
Country: Slovakia (sk)

Offline
no, I don't think so. Legolas obviously knew how to build one, since he built the one that he and Gimli sailed in. But who said they had to sail from the Grey Havens? There were other places to do it, after all.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: February 17th, 2007, 11:24 am 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: 04 June 2005
Posts: 12592
Gender: Female

Offline
True, Legolas obviously knew how to patch together a dinghy.. (for some reason I always pictured Gimli and Legolas in something like a dinghy paddling across the great sea, lol), but there must lie much knowledge behind building the great Elven ships Cirdan built.
And yes, they might have left Middle-earth from anywhere, but I'd wtill argue it would be wise to leave from a Western shore!! ;-)

_________________
>>Be the change you wish to see in the world<<
Image

Image
Banner credit: Shadowcat & Nurrantiel Mashiara


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: February 17th, 2007, 11:47 am 
Vala
Vala
User avatar

Joined: 02 January 2006
Posts: 5728
Location: Mithlond
Country: Slovakia (sk)

Offline
yeah, but that doesn't mean they had to go from the Grey Havens, so I think that Cirdan's ship was still the last one from there.

Lol--the thought of Legolas and Gimli in a dinghy is hilarious.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: February 18th, 2007, 3:41 pm 
Istari
Istari
User avatar

Joined: 07 October 2006
Posts: 2474
Location: From the north I have come, need has driven me and I have passed the doors to the path of the M6

Offline
Eä wrote:
True, Legolas obviously knew how to patch together a dinghy.. (for some reason I always pictured Gimli and Legolas in something like a dinghy paddling across the great sea, lol), but there must lie much knowledge behind building the great Elven ships Cirdan built.
And yes, they might have left Middle-earth from anywhere, but I'd wtill argue it would be wise to leave from a Western shore!! ;-)


over athousand or so years Legolas will have learned to build ships toa degree having probs had delings with the lake men and using ships to go there maybe. Also, There will have been elves who could build ships after maybe but as u sed, like dinghys. I spose as sum1 sed , it was ht elast ship of th enoldor and the end of their tale in middle earth.

_________________
"This is the hour of the Shire-folk, when they arise from their quiet fields to shake the towers and counsels of the Great. Who of all the Wise could have foreseen it? Or, if they are wise, why should they expect to know it, until the hour has struck? "


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: February 18th, 2007, 7:36 pm 
Half-elf
Half-elf
User avatar

Joined: 23 August 2006
Posts: 999
Location: Minas Anor

Offline
See, I always got the impression that "Legolas and Gimli sailed across the sea" was refering to the Sea of <i>Rhun</i>. :confused2:

I dunno why. I think "last ship across the sea" was drummed into my head by then.

_________________
<img src="http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j7/imladriseeker/Lady_of_Ithilien.jpg">
<img src="http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j7/imladriseeker/SimbelmyneBanner.jpg">


Top
 Profile       WWW            
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: February 19th, 2007, 1:20 pm 
Vala
Vala
User avatar

Joined: 02 January 2006
Posts: 5728
Location: Mithlond
Country: Slovakia (sk)

Offline
Lol, PoI--what would they gain by that? :laugh: :lol:

That's really funny.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: February 19th, 2007, 5:26 pm 


Well, several errors have been made in this thread :P Firstly, Cirdan was not upon the ship bearing Frodo, Gandalf and co. He stayed until (and I think this is a quote, though I get it from memory) 'the last ship sails'. And whilst Frodo's ship may have been the last containing Noldor (I find that hard to beleive) it certainly wasn't the last to leave the shores of middle-earth.

And Legolas's ship left down the Anduin (probably from Pelargir) made of wood from trees of Ithilien. I'm sure that is what it says in the appendices of the Lord of the Rings.

(if I think of anything else relevant, then I'll post it :p)


Top
                  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: February 20th, 2007, 3:06 pm 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: 04 June 2005
Posts: 12592
Gender: Female

Offline
Hmmm.. interesting. I was randomly browsing Encyclopedia of Arda and found something about the White Ship. According to that site Círdan had prepared the ship to carry the Ring-bearers over the sea. Elrond, Galadriel, Gandalf, Frodo and Bilbo. So the reference to the 'last ship' might be a poetic term from the movie.

A Wandering Dark. Do you remember where you read that Círdan was not onboard the White Ship? It sounds reasonable. :angel:

_________________
>>Be the change you wish to see in the world<<
Image

Image
Banner credit: Shadowcat & Nurrantiel Mashiara


Last edited by on February 21st, 2007, 6:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile                  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 62 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  




Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Boyz theme by Zarron Media 2003