How can one kiss, wether there are feelings there or not be worse than condeming a man to a certain death?
One kiss with a man that isn't your fiance is a worse crime than murder/manslaughter?
I'm genuinely confused by this.
Anyhoo...

I don't think she really had the time to go into those feelings or doubts with Will. There was far more pressing things going on at the time. Everything she did was on the spur of the moment, that's the kind of personality she has, impulsive, reckless and I guess selfish. Way back to when you see her as a young girl in the first movie.

Oh and thanks. I do enjoy debating too, so I'm glad I can bring something to this thread.

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(sigh) Because in my opinion it wasn't manslaughter of murder. I didn't see it as manslaughter becuase it wan't an accident. Then I didn't see it as murder because If she didn't do that then she and so many others would have died. Though on the other hand perhaps there was another way. Therfore it could be called murder. I certainly understand how some see it that way. May opinion right now on what it actual was certainly could be swayed to thinking that it was murder. There is a Very thin line there. It would just depend on who was judging. So maybe I'm wrong on this What she did wasn't right in my book by no means. In fact Very little that she does in my sight is right. She was down right cruel to say the Least. However I probabley understand that more than anything else she's done so far.
Anyway with the kiss I saw that as her being...selfish and stupid and foolish and cruel with other ways of getting what needed to be done, done.
Indeed, she certainly didn't have the time to do so. Therfore I think that she should have not have kissed Jack until she was un attached. I will agree with you about her personality.
You're welcome.

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Destiny I'm a Christian boycrazy girl. Will Turner's wife ^&? Avatar by JF, banners by Taurquende, Nurrantiel Mashiara, Silme Meleth TarNymphadora, and JF taught me how to use banners. Thanks to all!

I agree with Phoenix and potr here.

I'm not necessarily a shipper of either J/E or W/E, I'm just a shipper for an excellent third installment of this most awesome franchize and no matter how things turn out I will be happy either way because the writers are the people who truly know the essence of each character and therefore will make the best decisions they see fit for the characters they've developed.

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.*+I'VE MET ANTIGONE, MONTANABOHEMIAN, RAIVYNN PHOENIX, BERIADANWEN & PIRATEOFTHERINGS+*.

(¯`•¸·´¯`·._.·[TRUE VAMPIRES DON'T SPARKLE]·._.·´¯`·¸•´¯)

And I never said it was all for Will alone. In fact, I've been arguing against that. As I said, she had to slake her lust and drown her guilt, both of which were most decidedly selfish reasons. Since Ted and Terry themselves said that it was also to save Will at the same time, however, that's what I'm sticking with (since they, of all people, should know). Yes there was selfish motivation there. And no, she doesn't deserve Will's forgiveness. He has every right to call it off right then, hand her his ring, and tell her to forget it. But he doesn't, and that's the beauty of it. That's the kind of love I want to see. Not "Oh, you're so perfect and beautiful! I'm in awe of you!", but rather "You messed up. Big time. And yeah, I'm deeply hurt. But you know what? I forgive you anyway. I can't just stop loving you like that." That's true love- the ability to be hurt and acknowledge their faults, yet forgive them anyway.





Hehe..."What", not "who," and Beckabeth is the most improbable, ridiculous, self-destructive -yet deliciously snarky- shipper pairing there is out there: Beckett and Elizabeth. It was spawned by a discussion of what would happen if all three men (James, Will, Jack) gave Elizabeth what she truly deserved and left her with no one else to marry but Beckett (a marriage for status and propriety, not love). It's never going to happen, and I'd hate to see it happen (okay...I lie...it'd be pretty awesome ), but it's oh-so-fun to play around with. Just the fact that they utterly loathe each other and yet have to respect each other as worthy adversaries makes them irresistable. Basically, Beckabeth is where all the other shippers vacation to when they're tired of arguing for/against another one (like me and Willabeth right now).




Just doing my civic duty, sir....err...ma'am.

^
definetly the way I see it too. (that was for Eru..oops)

Drew - I only used the murder/manslaughter statements to give both of Elizabeths acts a comparison.
Hypothetically though, as far as I'm concerned kissing someone (even if it isn't your fiance) is nowhere near as severe as murder. Even if it was to save many lives.

Even still, I maintain in the context of the situation she did the right thing, just in a way that wasn't the best.

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I'm just gonna sit here and read what all you brilliant people have to say

Carry on...

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Aww, but I love hearing what you have to say, Melda!


Adding onto my previous post, I have more commentary from Terry about Will's feelings that I really love (from the very last scene):

Well, I do have something to say about that

I know! It makes me so mad when people say that the only reason Will offered to go to World's End to save Jack was because he needed the Pearl to get his father back. It's so sweet that even when he thinks the love of his life doesn't love him anymore, he's still willing to do...well...pretty much anything for her. In fact, I felt so strongly about it, I wrote a fanfic When I buy the DVD, the first thing I'm going to do is watch that scene.

Also, this brings up a question I have: what do you think is the deal with Will sitting in Tia's shack and repeatedly stabbing the table with his knife? All the J/E shippers seem to think it's an indication that he's angry with Elizabeth, but somehow I don't think it's quite that.

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ErulisseEnethnin, I want a good 3rd movie as well. Then as far as the couples...I'm not really so much of an Elizabeth/Will shipper as I am just a Will fan. I just want Will to have it all. (laugh) Will fan, I am.

pirateoftherings,Wow, I think that you nailed it. I love how you stated how Will loved her ect.
Well, I do like to watch that kind of love as well...to a certain point. However Elizabeth is pushing that point. I'm not sure that I want Will to forgive her as things are now. What I really want to see if it ends with Elizabeth and Will together, is that Elizabeth has to fight for his forgivness and that she proves that she deserves Will's un-changable love.
Oh, my. I have no idea what to make of that. I think that that's really who she Deserves...
Well, I'm certainly glad that you do so. By the way, it would be ma'am...I'm a girl
Oh, and thanks for the commentary quote.

Phoenix, Well, to me it just depends on the circumstances.
That last line of that post...100% in agreement. She needed to just find another way(s) to do all that mess.

Meldawen, oh, yes I argee! He's so sweet...maybe too sweet. (raises eye brows)
When I get that DVD I'm going to watch the entire movie so many times that I can quote every scene.
Um, I think that he may be mad at her but I'm not sure that that's why he's doing that thing with the knife. Honestly I think that he's going to be mad at Jack more than he will be with Elizabeth. I have a feeling that Jack may want to get ready to put his dukes up.
Anyway as for doing the knife thing, I think that he's doing that just to get out all of his pent up anger. I'm not talking about anger jsut towards Elizabeth but towards everybody adn everything. He's mad at Jack, Elizabeth, Davey Jones, Norrington, Beckett, and even a bit at himself and the whole world. What do you think, Meldawen?

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Destiny I'm a Christian boycrazy girl. Will Turner's wife ^&? Avatar by JF, banners by Taurquende, Nurrantiel Mashiara, Silme Meleth TarNymphadora, and JF taught me how to use banners. Thanks to all!

I don't think it was anger, is the thing. Because that doesn't seem Will-like. So really what I'm wondering is that if it wasn't anger, what was it? I mean, not to say that it couldn't be anger, because it could, but if it wasn't what was it? I just asked the same question twice, didn't I? I'm going to go off and do my laundry now and hope that next time I post I'm a little more coherent.

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Will is my hero. I can't say anything other than that. He's so sweet, so honorable... *hugs Will*

As for the knife thing... I think in some ways it was just that the monotony of the action could have helped him think. I know that when someone is going through pain, either emotional or physical, often they'll just focus on a single thing, and that thing gets forever imprinted in their memory, and... I don't know if I'm making sense. But maybe the knife was like that for Will. Think of what he must have been feeling!

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<center>-In Christ alone my hope is found, He is my light, my strength, my song-

^JF is awesome

There will come a time with no more tears
and love will not break your heart but dismiss your fears</center>

so if Will indeed is the next captain of the Flying Dutchman, where do Elizabeth and Jack fit in? and what happens to Barbossa, the crew of the Flying Dutchman, Norrington, Cutler and basically everyone else of any thought...great, more questions....

Meldawen, Um, yeah it might not be anger. It doesn't seem too much like Will. Though it is a human emotion and he is suposed to be human. (shrugs) However I could be wrong about the anger theory. It's a very fun thing to ponder over though.

Altariel Frodo, So you're saying that maybe he was doing that so that he would have something to focus on? Like that would help think? That would make sense. I've been known to do similar things when trying to clear my head or find a solution to a problem. You know, that might be why he was doing that. That's a very good thinking.

I asked my younger sister why she thought that Will did that knife thing and she said that maybe that was Orlando's doing and he just thought that it would make the scene more "deep" dramatic, I guess is what she meant. What do you think of that idea?

Dark Queen of Angmar, Wow you're full of questions tonight. Uh, do you mean at the end of the movie or for the durration of it?

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Destiny I'm a Christian boycrazy girl. Will Turner's wife ^&? Avatar by JF, banners by Taurquende, Nurrantiel Mashiara, Silme Meleth TarNymphadora, and JF taught me how to use banners. Thanks to all!

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^ By me and my SS *squiggle hugs*

Well, yes....potr had unveiled a couple new spoilers for us and they fueled some discussion!

Yup, I'm a nerd and I've seen both of those. I'm very curious as to why there's no Will in the pic of Elizabeth, Barbossa and Jack - what did they do with him? And what is with the annoying lack of pictures of Will from AWE?

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^ By me and my SS *squiggle hugs*