DISCLAIMER: ^ Ye be warned. The following post will be one of absurd length and detail. Just smile and nod and at least pretend you read half of it.
Okay, with that out of the way, I'm basically just going to go through this thread and address everything bit by bit. Ask the people who frequent the AWE thread: I do this quite a lot. It's the only way I feel like I can get everything said, so bear with the ridiculous number of quotes.
Shadowcat wrote:
I just wanted to know.... is there anyone else out there who doesn't like PotC?
Eh...judging by the 130-page thread we have going for At World's End (which hasn't even come out yet), I'd say the number is few, but aye, there are obviously some who don't like PotC. And while I really don't get it, they're entitled to their opinions.
Shy wrote:
Never seen it. Dont care for it. Dont wanna see it.
I can totally understand where you're coming from. Let me tell you a little story. There was once a 13-year-old girl who was in love with fantasy and fantasy only. She loved anything having to do with fantasy: LotR, CoN...you name it, she loved it. And she was also quite convinced that she
only liked fantasy (with a few exceptions). Then, that summer, a movie called
Pirates of the Caribbean came out. She saw the trailer, promptly said "Ew," and declared that she would never go to see it. The summer drew on, hype continued to grow about this "PotC," and she still didn't see it. Then, one very boring Friday afternoon, her brothers announced that they wanted to go see that new pirate movie. The girl protested and whined and suggested about five other movies, but since she was lacking in both a drivers license and money with which to purchase her own ticket to a different movie, she was unwillingly dragged to see it with her mom and brothers. She sat down in the theater with her popcorn and a rather sour attitude, but decided that if she had to watch the movie, she might as well actually pay attention.
The movie started...Okay, we have fog...and a ship. W00t. Oh, there's a little girl singing on the ship...Wait, I thought she was grown up in the trailer? Anyway...
"We're devils and black sheep, we're really bad eggs...Drink up, me hearties yoho...Yoho, yoho...A pirate's life for me...We extort, we pilfer, we filch and sack...Drink up-"
"Quiet, missy! Cursed pirates sail these waters! Don't want to bring 'em down on us, now do ye?"
Ooh..
cursed pirates? Well, this might not be so bad, given that it's not a totally lame curse...Oh, now there's a boy in the water? Hmm...Ooh a burning ship! *pyromania kicks in*
And so the movie proceeded. Every little revelation or plot twist increased her interest, especially when the swords got involved (after all, she loved swords; every good story has at least one epic sword fight). By the end of the film, she had to admit that it wasn't a total waste of money. It was at least entertaining. Next week, her grandma said that she really wanted to see it too (for she loved Johnny Depp), so the girl decided to go with her to see it again. Then again about two weeks later with a friend. Then, sadly, the movie left theaters, but the girl was not about to just wait that long for the DVD without getting more pirates. So she took out her dusty old neglected notebook and started writing stories again-- stories about the continued adventures of Captain Jack Sparrow and the
Black Pearl, and of William Turner and Elizabeth Swann. The DVD came out around her birthday, so she immediately bought it and watched it again. And again. And again. Every time, she noticed more little details that made it even better. Three years passed, and a sequel came out (which she followed every step of the way and devoured every spoiler she could find). She loved the sequel too. In fact, it inspired her to start writing even more stories. She found an online community of people who loved PotC as much as she did, and in the process made some very valuble friends. Because she went to see a movie that she had sworn never to see, her whole life changed.
I'm not promising a huge story like mine, but at least give it a shot, eh? The worst that can happen is you wasted $5 and 2.5 hours of some otherwise boring Friday or Saturday night.
Luthien wrote:
Ok, at first I did like PotC. Until I watched it 2.4 billion times. Then it just got irritating and boring.
I can somewhat sympathize there, too. I will admit; CotBP has gotten a bit repetetive for me. I can no longer watch it every weekend like I used to, and I had a spell where I never watched it at all. But it's still an incredible story, and I still get a kick out of it whenever I do watch it. All things in moderation.
Luthien wrote:
But the real reason I didn't really like it was because it was too drawn out, the plot was unbelievable, and that stupid monster ate Johnny.
Ah, but that was only the first half of the sequels. The Two Towers (the book) ends with Frodo in the hands of the Enemy, Pippin and Gandalf riding out to Minas Tirith, and Sam all alone. How much would you like LotR if it had ended there? There would be no closure, no resoultion, no anything. It'd be terrible! So basically, what I'm saying is that you should pass full judgment until you've seen the conclusion of the story. Oh, and since when does it have to be believable? That's the beauty of movies; we can escape the worries of the real world for a few hours and get the thrill of experiencing something that could never happen. (Again, how much of LotR could believably happen?)
Shy wrote:
Why I hate POTC? I mean, dislike. It doesnt interest me. Now, if it was a fantasy story like Narnia, LOTR, etc, then yes--that interests me. But Pirates sailing across the Sea...not really. I know what someone will say "But its more than that." but I dunno. POTC just...doesnt seem that great. I dont really wanna bother watching it.
"But it's more than that."

Now, with that out of the way, let me elaborate, because it really is more than that. If it was just pirates sailing across the sea, I'd be bored to tears too. There's no way I'd ever watch it. And as I stated above, I used to only watch/read fantasy. I thought that was the only thing that interested me. But how can you know what all is in it unless you see it? No, PotC isn't full of elves and dwarves and hobbits and evil witches and talking lions, but it is a fantasy of its own kind. It delves deeply into the ancient mythologies of several well-known cultures and somehow manages to work them all together. There are gods and goddesses and curses and mythological creatures...and they're all taken from our own history as humans. People for countless generations have been telling these myths and legends, and now we have them all together in one coherent storyline. There are Aztec gods and Greek nymphs and Scandinavian sea monsters and old legends of unknown origin, and yet somehow they all blend together perfectly to create a completely impossible and yet strangely realistic setting. So, I'll say it again, "It's more than that."
Shadowcat wrote:
Jack Sparrow: A sparrow is a bird. He's always drunk and can't decided whether he's going to be funny or not... and even when he tries to be funny, he isn't. I like Johnny Depp, but he's terrible in PotC.
Yep. A sparrow is a bird. It's a free spirit who soars on the winds without any obligations to anyone or anything but itself. Given that freedom is what Jack values most, I'd say that it's a fairly fitting name. I can't vouch much for his personality (if you don't like it, you don't like it), but I will tell you that he's not perpetually drunk. A bit off, yes, but not drunk. We see him truly drunk twice in the films (once in CotBP on the island, and once in DMC in his cabin), and neither time does he hold his liquor well at all. If Jack was truly drunk all the time, he'd be dead. And how boring would his character be if he was a perfectly straight, perfectly sane man? Is that honestly what you'd prefer?
Shadowcat wrote:
Elizabeth Swann: Hmm, I sense a bird theme.... She's gross, drippy, and in my opinion a Mary-Sue. And Keira Knightley can't act.
Yep. Bird theme. Really not that uncommon of a strategy for authors to create a link between the names of the main characters. I'm not sure what you mean by gross, but I definitely wouldn't call her drippy. She's a smart, fiercely independent young woman who will do whatever is necessary for those she loves (even hurt them to save them). The Mary-Sue, I'll give you. Elizabeth is pretty much a Mary-Sue. And, by that definition, so are Eowyn, Arwen (in the films), Princess Leia, Padme, and Arya, to name a few. In fact, I don't think I can name a single epic story that doens't have at least one character who is somewhat of a Mary-Sue (and often at least one Gary Stu as well).
Keira...I'm going to disagree with you there. I think she's done an amazing job with all of the roles she's been given. If you dislike Elizabeth, that's your opinion, but don't hold it against Keira. She's playing the character she's been told to play (if she wasn't, they wouldn't have hired her in the first place).
Shadowcat wrote:
Will Turner: He screams BORING a thousand times over. I can't really comment on him because he doesn't DO anything.
Shadowcat wrote:
If that's true... then I have yet to see that.
I really didn't see him do all that many uber-creative/smart things in either movie.
"Have you not met Will Turner? He's noble and heroic...a terrific soprano." ~ Jack Sparrow
Honestly, it really amazes me how many people see Will as the boring, flat, static character who does nothing. He's not my absolute favorite character, but of the main three "heroes," he is my favorite. And a very long section of this post will be devoted to just why, so bear with me. (Shy, you should probably skip this part if you don't even want to know what happens in the films, because I'm going to be very detailed and specific)
Even
Jack Sparrow admits that Will is a good and heroic man. And he
does plenty. Just to list off the top of my head...
- Left completely on his own at the age of 12, sets out to find his father in the Caribbean
-
Sole survivor of a pirate attack (also at the age of 12), despite the fact that he's the one the pirates are looking for in the first place
- By the age of 20, practically runs the blacksmith shop where he is apprenticed
- Despite this workload, he practices three hours a day with his swords
-
Outsmarts the infamous Captain Jack Sparrow, trapping the pirate in the smithy and forcing him to fight
- Almost
defeats said infamous pirate (and would have if Jack hadn't gotten desperate and cheated)
- When the town is attacked by pirates that night, instead of hiding or running away or trying to just defend himself, Will willingly straps on his weapons and runs out to defend his town
- Makes the first "kill" of the movie (we later find out that the attacking pirates cannot die, but Will threw that axe with every intention of killing his target and moves on without remorse)
- Is the first to notice Elizabeth being taken away (but is unfortunately knocked unconcious)
- Upon waking up, immediately rushes to the authorities and demands that
something be done immediately (and even challenges Norrington when it's "not good enough")
- Makes the connection between Jack and the attacking pirates and strikes a deal with him
- Figures out how to break Jack out of jail, even when Jack himself sees no possible escape
- "I would die for her" ('nuff said)
- Commandeers a ship of the fleet and outsmarts Port Royal's finest (granted, it was mostly Jack's plan, but he needed Will's assistance)
- Sails into Tortuga with Jack, eavesdrops on Jack and Gibbs' conversation, and figures out the pirate's plan to use him
- Manages to calm Anamaria down and gain the support of the crew (as Jack wasn't exactly doing too well with that)
- From Gibbs' storytelling, figures out that Barbossa was Jack's first mate and gains even more insight into Jack's plan
- Knocks Jack unconcious and leaves him for dead in the caves of Isla de Muerta
- Rescues Elizabeth on his own while the pirates are distracted
- While escaping, thinks to steal the oars from all of the pirates' longboats, thus ensuring that it'll be a while before they're followed
- Once it's obvious that escape is not an option, convinces the crew to load the cannons and make a stand against the
Black Pearl- When trapped below-deck, keeps a cool head and manages to yet again escape the pirates
- Threatens Barbossa with a pistol and demands that Elizabeth be set free
- Threatens to take his own life (thus preventing the curse from ever being lifted) and negotiates with Barbossa
- Back on Isla de Muerta, recognizes Jack's plan and plays along with him, making Jack's facade even more believeable
- Takes on at least 3 immortal pirates and not only survives, but still manages to disable them
- Lifts the curse at exactly the right moment, thus allowing Jack to kill Barbossa
- "I should have told you every day from the moment I met you... I love you." (again, 'nuff said)
- Singlehandedly rescues Jack from the gallows and almost manages to escape
- Stands up to Norrington and everyone else to defend Jack
- The kiss
And that's just CotBP. In DMC, he...
- Sets out alone to find Jack Sparrow
- Devises an escape plan and manages to rescue everyone from Pelegostos Island
- Threatens Jack with a sword to get the compass
- Holds his own against several of Davy Jones' undead crewmembers
- Survives several days of working aboard the
Dutchman, despite being the only mortal on the ship
- Takes five lashes for something that wasn't his fault
- Finds it in himself to forgive his father, even after all he's done
- Outsmarts Davy Jones himself not once, but
twice- Steals the key right out from under Davy Jones' nose (err...tentacles)
- "I will find a way to sever Jones' hold on you and not rest until this blade pierces his heart. I will not abandon you... I promise."
- Is the sole survivor of the Kraken's attack on the
Edinburgh Trader- Manages to hide from Davy Jones' notice and hitches a ride on the Dutchman all the way to Isla Cruces
- Three-way sword fight....this speaks for itself
- Figures out that Jack has taken the heart from the chest (and would have done something about it had he not been knocked unconcious)
- Challenges Jack about running away and demands that they turn around and face the
Dutchman- Recognizes the first sign of the Kraken attack and takes command of the crew, devising a strategy to at least slow it down
- Upon realizing that there are no lifeboats, figures out a way to further ward off the Kraken
- Orders Elizabeth to shoot the barrels of powder, even though he's still trapped in the net
- Even after witnessing the kiss, he remains more concerned about Elizabeth's well-being ("If there was anything that could be done...")
And there are even more amazing Will moments in AWE that I'm absolutely in love with, but those fall under the category of spoilers, so I won't bring those in (even though they're the greatest testament to the depth of Will's character). But my point is, Will does
not do nothing. I'd even go so far as to say that he's the most active and growing character in this trilogy. You can call Will a lot of things, but you cannot call him boring.
(Another note about the names: Will's name is a bird name as well. The tern is a small bird capable of flying incredible distances in minimal time. Basically, a symbol of tenacity and strength. Oh, and there was also a British ornithologist (studier of birds) named William Turner. So all three of the main heroes' names are bird-related)
Shadowcat wrote:
I could go on about the little characters who made it bad [freakypsychicladyinDMC...]but I won't. You get the picture.
And I could go on and on about the little characters that made this film so incredible, but I won't. However, "freakypsychicladyinDMC" is Tia Dalma, and she is a truly amazing character who was only barely introduced in DMC. We've hardly even touched the surface of her character so far. She's crucial to the plot of both DMC and AWE, and the depth of her character by the end of AWE is amazing. Give her a chance.
Shadowcat wrote:
I also thought that the monsters were pathetic looking. The "Kraken" looked like rubber. Can't imagine why.
Given that they were all 100% CGI, I'm actually massively impressed. That they were able to get all of the details in with as little time they had is mindblowing. I'm not quite sure where you got the impression that the Kraken looks like rubber, but given that it's a giant squid, that's fairly understandable. It probably should look somewhat like rubber.
Shadowcat wrote:
And Davvy Jones... looked like a pile of worms. That might have been the point, but a good villian is likeable... and he sure wasn't likeable.
Not likeable, but pitiable. He's another character who is much better explored in AWE (and just as crucial to the whole plot). As Tia Dalma told the crew, he was once a great man. His original job (and the reason for his immortality) was to guide souls to the other side after death and make the passage easy for them. A lot of things happened that fall under the category of spoilers, but just know that his life was essentially turned upside down. He became a monster and lost his true love because of his own stupidity. For crying out loud, the man
carved out his own heart because of how emotionally distraught he was. He may not be immensely likeable, but it's hard not to have some modicum of pity for him.
Shadowcat wrote:
Okay, so maybe not likeable as in they'd be a friend, but as in, they're so evil that you have to like them because they're clever, or hot , or something like that.
And Davvy Jones wasn't either one of those...
Actually, I know a diehard Davy Jones fangirl who would chase after you with a broadsword screaming like a wild banshee if she ever heard you say he wasn't hot. Can't say he does much for me personally, but hey, to each their own.
As for the cleverness, though, I'd say he's very clever. How do you think he got Jack owing him a debt anyway?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*cough*
*looks around*
*slowly gets down off of soapbox*
...Wow. I wrote a lot. Don't say I didn't warn you.

Basically, I really love PotC (as if that wasn't obvious). Ted Elliot and Terry Rossio are two of my role models as a writer, and I've loved every movie of theirs that I've seen. I respect other people's rights to disagree, but I really find it shocking that someone can
hate PotC. I know people who maybe aren't as crazy about it, but everyone I know who's seen it has said that it was at least a decent film. So y'all are my first encounter with someone who just completely disagrees with me about PotC (which is why you got all that). Hope I didn't offend anyone; I simply want to make sure that people give these films a fair chance, because I almost didn't.