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 Post subject: The Akallabêth/Downfall of Numenor
PostPosted: January 28th, 2017, 3:05 am 
Rider of Rohan
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What did you guys think of this chapter? The drowning of the entire island? The characters? I've seen difference of opinion on this and I am so interested to see what you guys think .

For myself, I think Ar-Pharazon was kind of an idiot and I was incredibly mad at him the entire time. I also think that Numenor absolutely deserved what it got when it drowned.

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 Post subject: Re: The Akallabêth/Downfall of Numenor
PostPosted: January 31st, 2017, 2:27 pm 
Elf
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I think the drowning of the island is somehow more fitting to the overall feeling of the Silmarillion, because all the other realms got destroyed at some point. It kind of reminds me of Gondolin, when evil gets inside the realm, it's destruction is going to happen very soon. Or I could say, any other realms in the Silmarillion. Of course there's realms like Gondor or Lothlórien or Valinor that won't, but that's not the point.
It's of course very sad thing to happen, because some good people die in the fall of Númenor too, but it's at least fitting to the storyline. I don't like it happening but it's better that way, I think.

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 Post subject: Re: The Akallabêth/Downfall of Numenor
PostPosted: August 5th, 2017, 3:10 am 
Dunedain Ranger of Arnor
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The Numenorean story has always been intriguing to me. The three houses of the Edain were blessed with the homeland for their staunch loyalty standing with the Noldor in the war with Morgoth. They had ruling Queens, and great knowledge and long lifespans. Yet in time it erodes, and in a sort of continuation of the 1st Age war, Morgoth's Lt Sauron gets into position to continue the fight, and even gets inside the kingdom and in the head of Ar-Pharazon, who technically stole the throne, and the end came. It was a fitting Silmarillion tale. Really like the 'Aldaron and Erendis' story in Unfinished Tales too.

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 Post subject: Re: The Akallabêth/Downfall of Numenor
PostPosted: August 5th, 2017, 2:05 pm 
Half-elf
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Using Arnold J. Toynbee’s concept of challenge-and-response (though very likely not entirely in a sense he would consider canonical), I am seriously puzzled at the discrepancies between the outcomes ending the First respectively Second Ages – or for that matter the first onslaught of the Valar upon Melkor, involving “personal” actions of the former against the latter, around the time of the awakening of the Elves.

At the end of the First Age (of the sun and moon, post the Two Trees), there is a direct confrontation between the Valar (Manwë’s herald Eonwë is named) and forces sent from Valinor with Melkor / Morgoth and his forces. Takes fifty (?) years in total, and Beleriand is wiped out – sinks below the seas. Even assuming that Morgoth by then, having dissipated his immense but quite bluntly finite power so massively (the concept behind all of Arda being “Morgoth’s Ring” compared to Sauron’s pathetic trinket) that he had shrunk in remaining native power below what Sauron still had left, he still controlled massive military resources – releasing Ancalagon the Black at the end, who (very unrealistically, Eonwë would have tied the critter into sailor’s knots with ease) was only defeated by the intercession of Eärendil, wearing his Silmaril, and his hallowed ship. Inconsistent, I would say. :annoyed:

Then Ar-Pharazôn and his navy show up on the shores of Valinor. Excuse me, it would have taken Eonwë's expeditionary force of the First Age about an afternoon to shred A-P’s invasion force. And never mind that an annoyed burp by Ossë would have annihilated A-P’s entire navy about a furlong out of harbor by some combination of hurricane and tsunami. OK, the Valar were not allowed to take action against the Eruhini in this manner, apparently. But why the §$%&ß@µ€ didn’t that jerk Eru, for whom I more and more imagine him having PJ’s face, vaporize Melkor, Sauron, Ungoliant, Balrogs and whatnot in punishment, vaguely resembling Zeus’s lightning bolts? :karate:

The Valar laid down their rule over Arda and appealed to Eru to take care of this situation for which he had not given them (the good guys) the necessary “clearance” against the bad guys, who apparently had no limitations imposed on them. The result (I exaggerate slightly) is like the use of a big thermonuclear weapon (aka H-bomb) compared to the use of a hand grenade. I have been annoyed at the Valar for ages because of what I have viewed as their wimpy and naïve treatment of Melkor and his cronies (and Manwë is in the pole position without any competition – cripes, even Tulkas got it about Malkor!!!) But the blame lands squarely at the doorstep of the ultimate moron Eru who could use some practical advice on (re-) socializing deficient “patients” from – lemme think - Cesar Millan, perhaps? :karate:

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