Oh, I definately like Isildur, and....I don't think he was weak. He was a very strong man, but the Ring exploits our weaknesses, and everyone has them. So he wasn't weak, but he had a weakness....an Achilles' Heel, kind of.

_________________

Ah. But if you say he wasn't weak, you are putting him above mortal man. Is that right? We are all weak. We all have our weaknesses. The Ring just had the power to draw out and exploit our weaknesses.
I like Isildur too, so we agree on that point. But I am speaking here more of the moral strength than physical. He was a very strong and brave man. But he had more than one weakness. He was weak in more than one area.
I think I was wrong to call him weak in general, but he definitely had more than just an Achilles heel, more than just one weak point. He was human after all. i don't blame him for that. In fact, I love him for that. It makes it easier to relate to him.

I don't think I'm putting him above mortals...he wasn't weak. Having weaknesses doesn't make you weak. Everybody has weaknesses, more than one, but I'm meaning that in general, he was a strong man. Strong morals (he was one of the Faithful on Numenor), and physical might. There are strong humans now, and weak ones. There is a range of people who give in to their weaknesses or spend their lives fighting and resisting them. I think Isildur was one of the latter, though he did give in to the Ring's temptation, and later regretted it.

_________________

That is what I have to say on the subject of him being weak as a whole.
I'm not disagreeing with you. he was strong overall. but you're talking about the Ring as if it were his one weakness. That's not the case. The Ring prayed on many of his weaknesses. Pride and greed and anger. Are not those all one of the Seven Deadly Sins? Yet we are all guilty of these at one point or another.
The point here is not whether he is weak or strong. It is whether he is good or evil. Weakness does not necessarily have anything to do with being good or evil, though it may oftentimes.
I think we have all absolutely decided that Isildur was a good, strong, brave man. My point in starting this thread was not to say otherwise. I think a lot of people think I'm saying he's evil. I'm not. I'm saying that I used to believe that, before I actually thought about it. Thinking about it, before I started this thread. I had arrived at the conclusion that Isildur was far from evil. My objective in starting this thread was to see if other people had thought he was evil at first but, like me, thought differently when they actually thought. And also to spark thought in peopls who may still assue he's evil. So you see, I actually quite like Isildur, I don't think he is weak and I don't think he is evil.

*applauds* Larael, you astound me. You said everything I needed to say, but didn't know how. Thank you. Excellent, excellent post.

Isildur definitely wasn't weak as a person, but he did have a weakness, the Ring. I'm not blaming him for this weakness, how could I? As Larael said, everyone shared the same weakness.
Isildur also was not evil. Again, his intentions in keeping the Ring were not bad. Bad came from his actions.

Really, Larael had said everything in the best way it can possibly be said, so I have nothing further to add.

I spose tinuviels tears,that men represent the best and worst in middle earth, good and evil, love and hate and that they are so changable that it is hard to solidly categorize Isildur as "good" or "evil" as the ring has a great powe to corrupt as it wwas with Boromir. Wasnt galadriel sorely tempted to take the ring when Frodo offerd it to her?If a Noldoli can be brought so close to taking th ering, then we can, I think excuse people like Isildur and Boromir, weaker of will than Galadriel their mistakes. But whatever u think, I will listen to u lol.
Namarie!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeh Larael really summed it up nicely so thanks to larael 4 that and all for ur input, makes the forum so much more interesting 8)

_________________
"This is the hour of the Shire-folk, when they arise from their quiet fields to shake the towers and counsels of the Great. Who of all the Wise could have foreseen it? Or, if they are wise, why should they expect to know it, until the hour has struck? "

Very true Eonwe. Good thoughts. There is good and evil in all of us, so it's hardly fair to categorize someone as good or evil. Also, we can definitely forgive Men for their want of the Ring. As you pointed out, others sucumbed to its power who were far greater than Men.

I think Larael has said everything else I wished to say on the subject.