I'm finally actually reading the Silmarillion slowly so that I understand it, and I thought it might be cool if I posted after every chapter so that we could all discuss it and any questions we might have. SO. I skipped the Ainulindale, because basically all that happens there is that we discover Melkor=bad and Iluvatar and the rest of the Ainur=good. I also skipped the Valaquenta, because it's basically a list of all the Valar. So on we go to the first chapter.

Of The Beginning of Days:
Well, I really like Tulkas, he's cool. Melkor is causing trouble and along comes Tulkas! Who actually wasn't a Vala to begin with, was he? I hadn't noticed before that Melkor was a huge enemy right from the beginning, but I guess he was. I also thought it interesting that the Valar came up with the Lamps of the Valar rather than the sun and moon, which I think come later. As though they knew they were temporary, you know? I don't think I'd make a world with two permanent lamps for the sun and moon. It doesn't seem to work for me. I'm also already starting to be confused about the relations of the Valar to each other - Nessa is apparently Orome's sister.
And then Melkor's back and he upsets Middle-Earth. It looks like he may be doing this a lot. Interesting how all the Valar put together couldn't just stomp him out right then and there, but retreated across the Sea.
And then came the Two Trees. Very alike to the Lamps of the Valar, only living.
It's also very interesting how the fate of Men after they die is not entirely clear. And I've always been very confused about the fate of the Elves - do they go to the Halls of Mandos and stay there, or are they reborn in their descendants, like I've read?
Anyway, next to come: Of Aule and Yavanna.

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hi meldawen im glad ur liking the silmarillipn its my fave ! yes some of the valar are related such as melkor and manwe, nessa and orome and nienna is alos the sister of the feanturi... mandos and lorien ...also u will find out later in the book that melian the mair.. a kind of helper of the valar is actually related to yavanna kementari.. second in status to elbereth herself!! ino its all very confusing but it gets easier the more u read it ! also when an elf is slain they are sent to the halls of mandos were they must abide for a certain amount of time.. the amount of time depends on the sins they commited during there lives ..they are then realeased back into the undying lands .. valinor and may return to middle earth if they wish.. however few elves ever wished to return to the sorrows of middle earth .

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she of the beautiful land kemet,
beloved of hathor, daughter of isis,
heart of the horizen, the beloved breath of life

Hallo Mel!
Now you see, I tired doing this and not a whole lot of people responded. The poor Sil. It gets so little recognition for it being such a wonderful book. I'm just finishing it for the first time, so a lot of stuff is still kind of fresh.
Firstly, I am shocked that you skipped Ainulindale and Valaquenta. i loved those parts! I suppose if you've already read them several times, they might get old, but maybe not. Also, Valaquenta tells all about how the Valar are related, so perhaps if you read that you might not be confused. Just a suggestion from a friend.
I loved the descriptions of Telperion and Laurelin. They soudn so beautfiul, and yes, the Sun and Moon made of their light are yet to come.
I think the reason that the Valar didn't destory Melkor is because they knew he was an instrument of Iluvatar (again, it's in Ainulindale). Iluvatar says that every time melkor does something bad, he will be but an instrument for the greater good or something like that. I can't recall the exact words. It's sort of like how Frodo didn't kill Gollum in LOTR, because he knew Gollum had some part yet to play. I am assuming that it was for similar reasons that the Valar did not blast the bejeeters out of Melkor. True, Melkor was mightiest of the Valar, but could he be mightier than the might of all of the Valar's power combined? I think not.
i've posted in another thread about thefates of Elves and Men. I think it's the one about loose ends and unresolved plots in LOTR. I am confused about where they go as well. i belive the Elves go to the Halls of Mandos, where they await a sort of reincarnation. That's what someone told me anyways. I have no idea what happens to Men. not being Immortal, I would assume that they go straight into the after world, perhaps with Iluvatar himself. Something like Heaven. That's just my idea though. I have no idea what's actually right.
hurry up and read the next chapter so we can discuss! I'm excited!
~T.T

Well, you see, I always read the Ainulindale and Valaquenta and then I don't get much further than that, so I skipped them this time. You can see a really amusing synopsis (or a few synopses) of the Silmarillion here: http://www.megaloceros.net/tolk.htm . If anyone's interested.
Thanks for your explanation, Vanmoriel Estelwen! It's a lot clearer to me now
Anywho, on to chapter 2 - Of Aule and Yavanna. By the way, anyone wanna tell me how to do the two little dots over the E in Aule? And Manwe, as a matter of fact. But on we go.
I always feel sorry for Aule in this chapter - he wanted so badly to have people to teach lore and crafting that he couldn't wait for the Elves. And then I always think he's a little taken aback at the reaction of Iluvatar, and diappointed in himself. And I always get alarmed when he's about to destroy the Dwarves. But it all turns out okay, only I feel that Iluvatar is a bit snobby in making Aule's people wait until HIS Firstborn are ready. Though I suppose he's King of everything, so he can do what he wants. And Aule was too impatient.
Also, what's with Yavanna's reaction? She seems jealous, almost, that Aule kept this hidden from her, and they seem to be a little at odds with each other until Aule points out, after Yavanna says the Dwarves will have little love for her craft, that the Firstborn will also use it to their own ends and purposes. Then she gets alarmed and appeals to Manwe.
This next part is VERY interesting. The Elves can claim to be the Firstborn, but they certainly had a bit of narrow scrape! Dwarves almost beat them and then Yavanna comes up with Ents! Though I suppose Iluvatar did say that the Ents would only be held in reverence for a time. They did fade about the same time the Elves left Middle-Earth, which I always find sad.
Aule's line at the end of this chapter is reminiscent of Gandalf, almost - always has to have the last word! "Nevertheless they will have need of wood." Can't you just see Yavanna rolling her eyes?

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I do feel bad for Aule, but at the same time I feel he should have been more patient. Iluvatar is like God in Tolkien's world. Neither he nor his word are to be taken lightly. I really liked reading about how the dwarves were created though. It was interesting. And I love the Ents. I think it was smart of Yavanna to make something that could defend her trees. I don't think that Aule's remark was reminiscent of Gandalf. I think it was kind of like a threat. An I'm-calling-you-out kind of thing. I think it's good that Yavanna made the Ents so that they could fight back for the trees. Afterall, trees are not like animals. They can't run away. They can't fight back. They need someone to defend and protect them. Yavanna gives them that something. Plus, I love the Ents.
The Elves are the Firstborn. Yes, the Dwarves and Ents were created before, but they are the Children of Iluvatar. They are the first born of His Children, which are superior to the creations of Aule and of Yavanna because they were created by Iluvatar himself. Also, they awakened first, before anyone else was allowed to.
I have so much more I want to say, but I kind of have to cut this post short. Drat being busy!
~T.T
EDIT: Oh! And I too want to know how to make the little dots. I never could figure it out. Does anyone know? See! You're not alone Mel!

Argh, I was going to do Of the Coming of the Elves and the Captivity of Melkor today but I just don't have time.
Tomorrow for sure though! And thanks for replying, guys!

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Okay. I have 24 minutes, let's see if I can do this.
Of the Coming of the Elves and the Captivity of Melkor.
Well, I'm glad the Valar finally did something! Even though Yavanna and Orome kinda had to push them a little. I'm amazed that the Elves lived that long in the darkness with only stars! Because the Lamps of the Valar weren't still there, were they?
I'm thinking this might be kind of a trademark of Melkor/Sauron - every time they're 'defeated' there's always something that the victors miss. Until the WotR, of course.
And I think I finally understand about the whole dividing of the Elves. I was always very confused about this. So tell me if I'm wrong - there are two big groupings, the Avari and the Eldar, also known as the Moriquendi and the Calaquendi, right? And there are sort of three sub-groups of Elves, led by Finwe, Elwe and Ingwe - the Noldor, Teleri and Vanyar. All the Vanyar departed to the Undying Lands, but some of the others stayed, and were further divided into the Umanyar and Nandor. So we're left with the Teleri, Noldor, Nandor and Umanyar on Middle-Earth. Right?

I have to go, sorry this chapter, wasn't more in-depth, but i'm super busy!

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When super busy-ness attacks! I've been busy too Mel. That's why I haven't been replying to PMs as fast. I might not even get to it tonight! Argh!
My volume of the Sil came with a handy little chart in the back to help you understnad all the different branches of the Elves. Here is what the chart says:
Quendi= The Elves, all of them
From the Quendi comes:
Eldar=Elves of the Great Journey from Cuivienen
Avari= the "unwilling" Elves who refused the Great Journey form Cuivienen

From the Eldar come:
Vanyar= all went to Aman
Noldor= all went to Aman
Teleri: those that went to Aman
^Calaquendi= all elves who went to Aman

(Still talking about the Eldar)
Teleri: those that stayed in Beleriand= Sindar, Grey Elves
Teleri: Those that left the march of the Teleri East of the Mist mountains=Nandor, of whom some afterwards entered Beleriand who then became Laiquendi, Green Elves of Ossiriand
^ Umanyar=all the Eldar who never cme to Aman

Umanyar and Avari= Moriquendi "Elves of Darkness", Elves who never saw the light of Aman

It seems as though what kind of Elf you were depended largely on whether you came to Aman or not. By the way, for everyone who doesn't know, Aman is the same as Valinor. I used Aman becausethat's what the chart in my book used.

I hope that clears things up a bit. Sorry if it just confused you more! It was easier to read as a tree graph. It could still be heplful though! Oh bother, that's all I've got time for at the moment! Comments later! If I have time!

~T.T

I just discovered this thread and I thought it'd be nice to revive it. I think the Sil is such a good book and it's a great idea to discuss every chapter I think.. so yeah
You've stopped with the chapter Of the Coming of the Elves and the Captivity of Melkor.
I've always found this chapter really confusing because of the different branches of the Elves. So thanks for explaining everything again Starlight.
I agree with what you said Meldawen that everytime the Valar seemed to have defeated Melkor/Sauron they've always missed something which developes to be a new danger for them.

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I always enjoyed that chapter. It has my wonderful elves in it. That makes it fantastic.

If someone comes up with something specific to say about this chapter or the following ones, you can be sure I will reply.

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Oh that's great Aerandir. So you're an elf fan as well?? I think it's really cool that so many different groups of elves developed through the journey to Aman (even though I found it a bit confusing) and it's great to learn how they're different from each other and so on.

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Yeah, I am an elf fan. Elves are cool, everything else but the Edain and Ainur are not half as cool.

I love reading that chapter, for the same reasons you listed. It is so interesting to think on the differences between the elves, and how they developed, etc. Plus, it gives us an idea of who the Mirkwood elves were.

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^
yeah exactly. And what I always find fascinating is that the light of Valinor in Orome's face is mentioned. I always wonder what the light of Valinor exactly is and how it must look on his face.

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Well, I always pictured it as Oromë's face being radiant. His face and hands, etc. I've imagined the light of Valinor as being something of a radiant aura around the person.

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Yeah that's quite a good imagination. I've also always imgained that you can see the light of Valinor especially in one person's eyes, that there's something special about the eyes of person who has got the light of Valinor.
What I also find very fascinating about the chapter is that it took the elves years to get to Beleriand and its west coast. Cuivienen must've been really far away from Beleriand then even though the elves took many breaks on their journey. I couldn't imagina traveling for so long. I think this also shows the strength of the elves and how much most of them wanted to get to Valinor.

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Yeah. It certainly wasn't a small trip. It must have been on the other side of Middle-earth, for it to take that long. I've always wondered where it is, exactly. Somewhere in Rhûn, or beyond it?

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