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Post subject: Ungoliant and Shelob: the same or not Posted: June 22nd, 2005, 6:37 am |
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since reading the Silmarillion i have wondered if Ungoliant and shelob are the same creature. I wonder, anyone have any thoughts.
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Post subject: Posted: June 22nd, 2005, 6:54 am |
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Joined: 12 June 2005 Posts: 30 Location: Lórien
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Shelob was the offspring of Ungoliant. Not necessarily by the first degree, but it is implied. So they are not the same at all, though both are in similar spider form. Ungoliant, "gloomweaver", would have been much larger and she was certainly more evil and powerful. She was likely a spirit like a Maia, though she had taken on evil form and followed Morgoth. She is said to have eaten herself in the the end...
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Post subject: Posted: June 22nd, 2005, 2:15 pm |
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Joined: 04 June 2005 Posts: 2671 Location: the Netherlands
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How is is possible to eat yourself..? Digusting...
Are those spiders immortal btw?
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Post subject: Posted: June 22nd, 2005, 4:54 pm |
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Joined: 04 June 2005 Posts: 1505 Location: California Country:
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Hmm, this topic seems familiar - I think it was brought up in the other forum. I'll go check and bring back any information if I can.
_________________
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Post subject: Posted: June 22nd, 2005, 6:33 pm |
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Joined: 03 June 2005 Posts: 5602 Location: Canada Country:
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Yes it was brought up at the old forum. They are related in some way but it's not really specified if Shelob is actually Ungoliant's daughter. I thought she was at first but I'm not so sure now. Okay let me check something...
According to my encyclopedia she was actually her daughter. It says that when Beleriand was drowned some of Ungoliants decendants escaped across the Blue Mountains. Shelob was her "one great daughter" and she was one of the surviving. They all went to Greenwood the Great which was renamed Mirkwood largely because of them. Shelob obviously left eventually and came to Cirith Ungol.
So it seems like Shelob was her daughter but the spiders of mirkwood were just her ancestors. But it might just be an assumption by the author that Shelob was her actual daughter. I'm gonna try and find something in Tolkien's books...
_________________ Proud Member of the The Evilishy Nazgûl Alliance for World Domination {Beri}
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Post subject: Posted: June 23rd, 2005, 9:17 pm |
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Joined: 03 June 2005 Posts: 13144 Location: Heaven: Rockin' with Severus Snape Country:
Gender: Female
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I never thought about that.........
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Post subject: Posted: June 24th, 2005, 5:25 pm |
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Joined: 04 June 2005 Posts: 1505 Location: California Country:
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MrsDominicMonaghan wrote: Yes it was brought up at the old forum. They are related in some way but it's not really specified if Shelob is actually Ungoliant's daughter. I thought she was at first but I'm not so sure now. Okay let me check something...
According to my encyclopedia she was actually her daughter. It says that when Beleriand was drowned some of Ungoliants decendants escaped across the Blue Mountains. Shelob was her "one great daughter" and she was one of the surviving. They all went to Greenwood the Great which was renamed Mirkwood largely because of them. Shelob obviously left eventually and came to Cirith Ungol.
So it seems like Shelob was her daughter but the spiders of mirkwood were just her ancestors. But it might just be an assumption by the author that Shelob was her actual daughter. I'm gonna try and find something in Tolkien's books...
Hmm, so it was brought up in the previous forum - I tried looking for it, but I forgot which board it was located at - anyway, you provided us with the details already, and you're always the one who so helpfully passes us the concrete info during such debates like these! Thanks!
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Post subject: Posted: June 29th, 2005, 8:56 pm |
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Joined: 03 June 2005 Posts: 13144 Location: Heaven: Rockin' with Severus Snape Country:
Gender: Female
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Here's what trusty Encyclopedia of Arda had to say:
The evil creature of spider-form who was Melkor's accomplice in the Darkening of Valinor, and who fled with him to Middle-earth. The creatures that infested the Ered Gorgoroth were her offspring and descendants, as was Shelob who dwelt on the borders of Mordor.
So Shelob is Ungoliants duaghter.
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Post subject: Posted: June 29th, 2005, 9:03 pm |
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Joined: 08 June 2005 Posts: 390 Location: Doriath
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Larael Greenleaf wrote: So Shelob is Ungoliants duaghter.
Not necessarily, Shelob could also be a descendant of Ungoliant.
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Post subject: Posted: July 3rd, 2005, 12:44 pm |
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Quote: Shelob was the offspring of Ungoliant. Not necessarily by the first degree, but it is implied. So they are not the same at all, though both are in similar spider form. Ungoliant, "gloomweaver", would have been much larger and she was certainly more evil and powerful. She was likely a spirit like a Maia, though she had taken on evil form and followed Morgoth. She is said to have eaten herself in the the end...
Yes that's the truth...
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Post subject: Posted: July 10th, 2005, 3:05 pm |
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Joined: 03 July 2005 Posts: 105
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I read somewhere that Shelob was the youngest daughter of Ungoliant.
_________________ Where now are the Dúnedain, Elessar, Elessar?
Why do thy kinsfolk wander afar?
Near is the hour when the Lost should come forth,
And the Grey Company ride from the North.
But dark is the path appointed for thee:
The Dead watch the road that leads to the Sea.
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Post subject: Posted: July 11th, 2005, 3:51 pm |
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Joined: 09 July 2005 Posts: 9460 Location: in the temple of love
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wow i don't wonder. and they are definetely related
_________________ <center>[font=Times New Roman]<img src="http://tinyurl.com/63ongu"><br><br>From sorrow & pain I find my strength ... the more pain I feel, the more I see /// July the 4th 2008, first day of my life...<br><br>I met Eru on September 5th 2006 ♥ (and April 15th 2008!)<br><br>Censorship Causes Blindness</center>[/font]
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Post subject: Posted: July 11th, 2005, 10:57 pm |
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Joined: 03 June 2005 Posts: 13144 Location: Heaven: Rockin' with Severus Snape Country:
Gender: Female
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Elu Thingol wrote: Larael Greenleaf wrote: So Shelob is Ungoliants duaghter. Not necessarily, Shelob could also be a descendant of Ungoliant.
So sorry thats what I meant. I think......
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Post subject: Posted: August 5th, 2005, 12:05 am |
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Joined: 05 June 2005 Posts: 1172 Location: The Caribbean Sea
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Whoa! How could you tell Shelob was the youngest out of all the spiders Ungoliant could have had. Well if the author emphasizes that fact, but I think we all agree she's related to her some how, right?
_________________
Capt. Jack: Shoot him and cut out his tongue! Then shoot his tongue!..and trim that scraggly beard.
yAAAy! The <a href="http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/dec2007/tc20071218_443372.htm">Hobbit movie</a> is back on!!! Movie buffs get excited!
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Post subject: Re: Ungoliant and Shelob: the same or not Posted: September 28th, 2023, 7:36 pm |
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Joined: 26 September 2023 Posts: 11
Gender: Male
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demn uo mait gash bloc shu tup beibi beibi ooooo
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Post subject: Re: Ungoliant and Shelob: the same or not Posted: September 28th, 2023, 7:36 pm |
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Joined: 26 September 2023 Posts: 11
Gender: Male
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♥ justin bieber is the best singer of the world ♥
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