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Post subject: Re: Do elves have pointed ears? Posted: November 23rd, 2011, 10:41 pm |
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Joined: 08 February 2010 Posts: 376
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amariel wrote: I believe Tolkien said elves had pointed features, so they probably have pointy ears too. Can't remember where I read that tho. Hmm, Tolkien didn't say this as far as I'm aware... but if you have a quote (please note the source if so) I would love to see it
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Post subject: Re: Do elves have pointed ears? Posted: November 23rd, 2011, 10:56 pm |
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Joined: 14 May 2011 Posts: 67 Location: in a tree with a book Country:
Gender: Female
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Couldn't find it. . Probably read it somewhere else and it got mixed in with everything else
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Post subject: Re: Do elves have pointed ears? Posted: February 4th, 2012, 12:30 am |
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Joined: 17 January 2012 Posts: 309 Location: The Tardis, which is currently parked in Rivendell. Country:
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I think they have pointed ears. I really, really really like Elves and I write stories about Elves, (both origanal and LotR fanfics) and all the Elves in my stories have pointed ears. It's how they're distingused from humans.
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Post subject: Re: Do elves have pointed ears? Posted: February 4th, 2012, 8:40 pm |
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Joined: 08 February 2010 Posts: 376
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Quote: (...) and all the Elves in my stories have pointed ears. It's how they're distingused from humans. Well in your stories you can distinguish them that way of course, but interestingly... 'This is strange in you Voronwe,' he said. 'We were long friends. Why then would you set me thus cruelly between the law and my friendship? If you had led hither unbidden one of the other houses of the Noldor, that were enough. But you have brought to knowledge of the Way a mortal man - for by his eyes I perceive his kin'. JRRT, The Fall of Gondolin, Unfinished Tales Which obviously doesn't prove anything about Elvish ears in general in any case, but as I say, interesting.
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Post subject: Re: Do elves have pointed ears? Posted: February 5th, 2012, 8:12 pm |
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Joined: 19 January 2012 Posts: 181 Location: Orodrim Country:
Gender: Female
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Letter #27 Quote: I picture a fairly human figure, not a kind of 'fairy' rabbit as some of my British reviewers seem to fancy: fattish in the stomach, shortish in the leg. A round, jouvial face; ears only slightly pointed and 'elvish'; hair short and curling (brown). I think that is what everyone was thinking of. In that segment he is giving advice to the American publishers who needed illustrations for The Hobbit.
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Post subject: Re: Do elves have pointed ears? Posted: February 5th, 2012, 8:40 pm |
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Joined: 08 February 2010 Posts: 376
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dreamingfifi wrote: Letter #27 (...) I think that is what everyone was thinking of. In that segment he is giving advice to the American publishers who needed illustrations for The Hobbit. I posted this earlier in this thread: Quote: *this is about the same time as a letter in which Tolkien described: 'I picture a fairly human figure (...) fattish in the stomach, shortish in the leg. A round, jovial face; ears only slightly pointed and 'elvish'; hair short and curling (brown).' (JRRT, 1938) So even if Tolkien was referring to his Elves here with 'elvish', which has been debated in the past, again we seem to be, at least roughly, at about the same time period as the statement in Etymologies in any case. I would say Tolkien probably did think of his Elves as having ears that were more pointed and leaf-shaped than humans... at this point in time anyway (mid to later 1930s, early 1940s, and perhaps earlier). Did he retain the notion later? That's a slightly different question I think, especially given WPP.
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Post subject: Re: Do elves have pointed ears? Posted: February 5th, 2012, 8:47 pm |
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Joined: 19 January 2012 Posts: 181 Location: Orodrim Country:
Gender: Female
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We can most definitely assume, however, that he didn't want ears like handlebars on the elves' heads.
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Post subject: Re: Do elves have pointed ears? Posted: February 6th, 2012, 12:13 am |
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Joined: 17 January 2012 Posts: 309 Location: The Tardis, which is currently parked in Rivendell. Country:
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dreaming fifi: I agree that ears like that just look stupid. (and they feel silly to draw....) (btw, I like your website....)
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Post subject: Re: Do elves have pointed ears? Posted: February 8th, 2012, 3:30 pm |
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Joined: 19 January 2012 Posts: 181 Location: Orodrim Country:
Gender: Female
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(thanks)
They do look funny, don't they? It think this version is from WOW, which can have some funny over-the-top designs. I've always been confused by everyone making Elf-ears more and more extreme.
As far as Tolkien-Elves go... I think Tolkien didn't care much about the ears as far as telling humans from elves. There are other traits that are more noticeable. Like height. If you meet someone who is 7 feet tall and has a very nice voice, you can guess that you're meeting an Elf.
Or a basketball player.
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Post subject: Re: Do elves have pointed ears? Posted: February 29th, 2012, 10:54 am |
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Joined: 25 February 2012 Posts: 129 Country:
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i think that's one of the characteristics that will define an elf as an elf. I could never imagine an elf without pointy ears..
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Post subject: Re: Do elves have pointed ears? Posted: February 29th, 2012, 7:45 pm |
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Joined: 26 February 2012 Posts: 2086 Location: Arda Country:
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It is mentioned Elves (and Hobbits too) have leaf-shaped ears, and leaves are usually pointy, right? I'm sure Tolkien didn't mean this when he wrote that lol
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Post subject: Re: Do elves have pointed ears? Posted: February 29th, 2012, 11:34 pm |
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Joined: 08 February 2010 Posts: 376
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Sírelindë wrote: It is mentioned Elves (and Hobbits too) have leaf-shaped ears, and leaves are usually pointy, right? Yes, but I submit that the mention you are referring to here (about the Elves) was arguably superseded by a very similar, but much later text in which Elvish ears are not mentioned at all. I am not saying the idea in the earlier source was necessarily rejected by the later text (then again it doesn't necessarily survive either), but that the later text should have more weight when it comes to this question. I could post various and contradicting mentions of how tall the Elves are compared to Men for example, which kept changing throughout the years, or even two very late quotes about how tall Elves are generally, where each one says a different thing! or that Elves are reborn as children, as well as text that says they were not reborn as children. Tolkien wrote a lot of things he never expected anyone to see, and he changed his mind often enough. And since a lot of his writing that is now public was private and known only to him, there would be no reason to constantly note 'to himself' that a given idea supersedes an earlier one -- in other words, he would not need to note he is rejecting some earlier idea, he would simply write the new idea of course, and if it contradicted an older one (or even simply left out an unwanted idea perhaps), then for all he knew no one would ever know the older one ever existed in the first place. Sometimes he might jot a note to himself as to which idea was later for example, or 'correct' at some point in time, or whatever, and even in one instance he wrote 'most of this fails' on an essay, because he had forgotten something already published. In general this sort of thing can help keep things less confusing, but the point is he will not necessarily do so, because he doesn't anticipate that we will someday be reading something, and wondering about that something. Nor would he have reason to think a letter he had sent to one person would ever appear in a book someday and possibly shape his Subcreated World in the eyes of his much larger readership. No doubt I am one of the first to quote all these things, and enjoy reading them, but the rather large pile of posthumous writing can be tricky sometimes. Of course I could raise a statement like 'maybe Tolkien changed his mind' about anything! and so that very general statement is only so compelling; but in this case we have an interesting and specific something: a later text which I think at least casts some measure of doubt on this earlier mention.
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Post subject: Re: Do elves have pointed ears? Posted: July 2nd, 2012, 8:02 pm |
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Joined: 05 May 2012 Posts: 166 Location: Mirkwood
Gender: Female
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Tokien mentioned, when Gandalf recited the Mordor verse at the Council of Elrond, that the "evles upturned their ears". This, in my interpretation, assumed that they have erected, more controllable ears; however, this ability is not mentioned within any other part of the book. So I guess we'll never know.
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Post subject: Re: Do elves have pointed ears? Posted: July 2nd, 2012, 10:25 pm |
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Joined: 08 February 2010 Posts: 376
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Areanne wrote: Tokien mentioned, when Gandalf recited the Mordor verse at the Council of Elrond, that the "evles upturned their ears". This, in my interpretation, assumed that they have erected, more controllable ears; however, this ability is not mentioned within any other part of the book. Isn't this the quote? Or do you mean something else? 'A shadow seemed to pass over the high sun, and the porch for a moment grew dark. All trembled, and the Elves stopped their ears. 'Never before has any voice dared to utter the words of that tongue in Imladris, Gandalf the Grey,' said Elrond,...'The stopped their ears rather, if that's what you meant.
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Post subject: Re: Do elves have pointed ears? Posted: July 5th, 2012, 2:45 pm |
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Joined: 19 January 2012 Posts: 181 Location: Orodrim Country:
Gender: Female
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I read that more as they put their hands over their ears.
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Post subject: Re: Do elves have pointed ears? Posted: July 6th, 2012, 11:35 am |
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Joined: 08 February 2010 Posts: 376
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Quote: I read that more as they put their hands over their ears. And probably their own hands over their own ears Yes I can't imagine it means anything else.
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