How do you picture the Maias and the Valar? I cant find a discription anywhere. I know they are very beautiful but that's about it. I think that the Maias may look like the elves only more powerful. In Ted Nasmith and John Howes paintings the Valar is very tall but does it stand anywhere in the books? So...how do you picture them?

Aftenstjerne

I imagined Maiar in the same way (Gandalf is one, after all).
I'm not sure about the Valar. I've seen a lot of art in whch they are giant, but I never specifically imagined them that way. I think they are probably beyond description.

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<_< Well, both the Maiar and the Valar can assume almost any shape they choose, so they don't necessarily have a set appearance. If he wanted, Manwe could look like the Balrog in FotR...

But while I think of Maiar, for some reason, as being sort of ghosty, I do have set ideas for what I think the Valar look like, though it'd take too long to write it all out here.

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Well, Ulmo is described in UT: "[...] the sun was sinking low into a great black cloud that came up over the rim of the darkening sea; and it gew cold, and there was a stirring and murmur as of a storm to come. And Tuor stood upon the shore, and the sun was like a smoky fire behind the menace of the sky; and it seemed to him that a great wave rose far off and rolled towards the land, but wonder held him, and he remained there unmoved. And the wave came towards him, and upon it lay a mist of shadow. Then suddenly as it drew near it curled, and broke, and rushed forward in long arms of foam; but where it had broken there stood dark against the rising storm a living shape of great height and majesty.

Then Tuor bowed in reverence, for it seemed to him that he beheld a mighty king. A tall crown he wore like silver, from which his long hair fell down as foam glimmering in the dusk; and as he cast back the grey mantle that hung about him like a mist, behold! he was clad in a gleaming coat, close-fitted as the mail of a mighty fish, and in a kirtle of deep green that flashed and flickered with sea-fire as he strode slowly towards the land. In this manner the Dweller of the Deep, whom the Noldor name Ulmo, Lord of Waters, showed himself to Tuor son of Huor of the House of Hador beneath Vinyamar.

He set no foot upon the shore, but standing knee-deep in the shadowy sea he spoke to Tuor, and then for the light of his eyes and for the sound of his deep voice that came as it seemed from the foundations of the world, fear fell upon Tuor and he cast himself down upon the sand."

There is an older description of Ulmo in BoLT2:

"Behold now Ulmo leapt upon his car before the doorway of his palace below the still waters of the Outer Sea; and his car was drawn by narwhal and sealion and was in fashion like a whale; and amidst the sounding of great conches he sped from Ulmonan. So great was the speed of his going that in days, and not in years without count as might be thought, he reached the mouth of the river. Up this his car might not fare without hurt to its water and its banks; therefore Ulmo, loving all rivers and this one more than most, went thence on foot, robed to the middle in mail like the scales of blue and silver fishes; but his hair was a bluish silver and his beard to his feet was of the same hue, and he bore neither helm nor crown. Beneath his mail fell the skirts of his kirtle of shimmering greens, and of what substance these were woven is not known, but whoso looked into the depths of their subtle colours seemed to behold the faint movements of deep waters shot with the stealthy lights of phosphorescent fish that live in the abyss. Girt was he with a rope of mighty pearls, and he was shod with mighty shoes of stone.

Thither he bore too his great instrument of music; and this was of strange design, for it was made of many long twisted shells pierced with holes. Blowing therein and playing with his long fingers he made deep melodies of a music greater than any other among musicians hath ever compassed on harp or lute, on lyre or pipe, or instruments of the bow. Then coming along the river he sate among the reeds at twilight and played upon his thing of shells; and it was nigh to those places where Tuor tarried. There he stood knee-deep in the grass and heard no more the hum of insects, nor the murmur of the river borders, and the odour of flowers entered not into his nostrils; but he heard the sound of waves and the wail of sea-birds, and his soul leapt for rocky places and the ledges that reek of fish, for the splash of the diving cormorant and those places where the sea bores into the black cliffs and yells aloud.

Then Ulmo arose and spake to him and for dread he came near to death, for the depth of the voice of Ulmo is of the uttermost depth: even as deep as his eyes which are the deepest of all things."

The first is from 1951 and the second from 1916-7.

.....but those are still only shapes that Ulmo took on for a while, not necessarily fixed things. Thanks for the text, though, Tyrhael!

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I always imagined them as tall, beautiful, flowing beings that glowed a tiny, tiny bit.

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I don't really picture the Valar, because it's very difficult to do so I think. They're described so powerful and beautiful beyond imagination that I can't really think of anything to match that. For the Maiar - I picture them a bit like the Eldar, but more powerful, just like Aftenstjerne said.

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I imagined the Maias the same like elves. 'think they aren't taller than men or elves, but I believe that they have a light, which dazzle erveryone. fiting this describtion not very great, gandalf isn't a 'normal' maia - he is sent by the valar - in another manifestation like the 'normal' ones.

I imagined the Vala like spirits, who were flying in the world.

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So pretty much everyone so far agrees on what the Maiar look like. A bit like the Elves but more powerful-looking, with a little bit of a glow.

I picture them all in different ways--when I think of the Maiar as a group, I imagine them walking in Lorien, but while some look like Elves, others look like elderly men (like Gandalf, sort of) or other things. I don't picture them all the same way.

As for the Valar, I imagine them as being entirely separate, too--Manwe and Varda are tall and noble, stern of face, with silverish-white auras around them; Aule looks kind of homely and 'simple' with a reddish-orange aura; Tulkas is big, muscular, but with a bit of baby-fat still on his face, and he looks like he's in a perpetual state of childish glee. His aura is white. Ulmo I don't really imagine at all (which is to say, he never looks the same); and I imagine all the rest with sharply-chiseled features, and auras of the color with which they would be most associated.

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@Aerandir: I believe everybody has another imagination about the Maia and the Vala, but your's very interesting. Your fantasy about this topic is great!

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^
*agrees* you must have thought about that for long. You have got some really great ideas about the Valar

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Well, I read The Silmarillion for the first time three or four years ago. I've had a lot of time to think about it.

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comleting this topic, I've read some articles about the maia. please correct me if something is wrong: Maia means "the beautyful ones" or something like that. they are ainur, but they have less power than the vala. so Osse and Uinen, Ilmare and Eonwe, Arien and Tilion, Melin and Olorin were Maias. Some of them were very strong, like the vala. others could turn their feature into dogs, horses or eagles,'cause they were spirits.

And also Balrogs were Maia.

namarie

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Yes--the Maiar were Ainur too, but less powerful than the Valar. They could all change their shapes into whatever they wanted, not just some of them, too.

And yes, the Balrogs (Valaraukar) were Maiar, too, as was Sauron.

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but some lost their ability of changing their form (morgoth and sauron).
the wizards(istari) came to middleearth in the shape of men because they should look familiar to the elves and men. also because it is not good for both
to see the power of the maiar or valar unveiled as was proved in valinor. therfor the wizards became men (i think this was from jesus and the bible) and a human body in order to save middelearth from sauron

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