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Post subject: Dark for Dark Business (TRG Discussion- Ch. 1) Posted: June 30th, 2005, 11:49 pm |
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Joined: 05 May 2005 Posts: 695 Location: Somewhere far, far away...
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Okay, now that you're hopefully reading (or have read) the Hobbit, Chapter 1: An Unexpected Party, it's time to discuss. I have a few official questions here to get us started, feel free to post any of your own, or other random observations you may have.
What’s your impression of Gandalf so far in comparison to the LotR books?
What WOULD you do if an uninvited dwarf came and hung up his things in your hall, without a word of explanation?
[b]Dwalin is described as having a “blue beardâ€
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Post subject: Posted: July 4th, 2005, 2:27 pm |
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Joined: 03 June 2005 Posts: 5602 Location: Canada Country:
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Well I just finished it last night and it looks like I will be the first to post
-My impression of Gandalf: In The Hobbit you see Gandalf as an invincible character, wheras in LotR right away we see mistakes that he makes, such as not continuing to follow Gollum, not going back to tell Frodo to leave immediately, and of course getting trapped by Saruman. He is also a much happier character in The Hobbit but so is everyone I guess. It's a very nice and upbeat book as compared to LotR which is rather dark. In The Hobbit you see Gandalf the Grey at his happiest
-If an uninvited dwarf came to my house: As in if I was a hobbit in the third age, or as in I'm a 15 year old girl living in Canada in the year 2005? As a hobbit living in Tolkien's world I would probably do the same thing as Bilbo. Be very confused at first and then pretend to not be interested when I secretly am.
-Blue beard: I think that it's black that looks kind of blue-ish. He also said that two of them had yellow beards, which is blond I'm assuming.
-Took-ish side of Bilbo: Well because the Tooks were adventurous...
-Toys: I have no idea. What kind of toys would dwarves and other children in middle-earth play with? Maybe fake weapons or something...
-Thorin's Grandfather: Hmmmm...I never thought of this. I think that it was just Orc/Goblin abuse.
Other random observations:
- On the first page Tolkien says that Bilbo's doorknob was right in the exact middle of the door. It's not like that in the movies is it? I just found it a bit strange because you don't typically find a doorknob in the middle of a door.
-While I'm still talking about Bilbo's door, what sort of doorbell do you think Bilbo had? It's obviously not a modern day doorbell. -> "ding-dong-a-ling-dang; his bell rang again, as if some naughty little hobbit-boy was trying to pull the handle off." Stupid observation really but it caught my attention when I read it...
-And speaking of stupid observations, Why does Gandalf the Grey have a blue hat?
Favortie quotes:
-Gandalf: "What do you mean?" he said. "Do you wish me a good morning or mean that it is a good morning whether I want it or not; or that you feel good this morning; or that it is a morning to be good on?" I love witty Gandalf comments
-"It sailed a hundred yards through the air and went down a rabbit-hole, and in this way the battle was won and the game of Golf invented at the same momment" I love the bits of humour that Tolkien puts in his books.
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Post subject: Re: Dark for Dark Business (TRG Discussion- Ch. 1) Posted: July 4th, 2005, 8:08 pm |
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Joined: 04 June 2005 Posts: 4449 Location: Northern USA
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I finished the chapter 2 days ago, I think, and here are my answers
What’s your impression of Gandalf so far in comparison to the LotR books?
--I think he seems pretty much the same. I think he does seem happier, though, like Beriadanwen said ![Happy :)](./images/smilies/cheerful1.gif) .
What WOULD you do if an uninvited dwarf came and hung up his things in your hall, without a word of explanation?
--I would be like "Woah!" and think a lot of things in my head like "What the heck??". I'd try to be polite, though, and I'd probably figure out he was there because Gandalf visited me the other day.
Dwalin is described as having a “blue beard”. Do you think Tolkien meant that literally, or was it just the kind of black that looks blue-ish?
--Well, at first I think he meant it literally, but now that I think about it, maybe he meant he was a)cold b)had a blue beard c)gives the 'cold shoulder' or d)has a beard that is blackish blue, like you said ![Happy :)](./images/smilies/cheerful1.gif) . I'm not sure what I think yet.
How would the dwarves singing about places “Far over the Misty Mountains cold”, wake up the “Took-ish” side in Bilbo?
--He might've suddenly realized that it would be fun to go see places 'far off' that he's never seen.
What kind of toys can you imagine that the Dwarves made that made them so famous?
--I think they made really pretty toys (with gold and jewels) that run with magic. Like little train sets (but they didn't have trains, did they?) and dolls that could walk ![Happy :)](./images/smilies/cheerful1.gif) .
Do you think that what sent Thorin’s Grandfather out of his wits was the fear of the Nazgul/The Black Breath (It is very well possible that there were Nazgul there), or was it just Orc/Goblin abuse?
--I'm a bit confused by this question. Wasn't Thorin's father the one that went crazy? Because it says here:
Hobbit wrote: "Your grandfather Thror was killed, you remember, in the mines of Moria by Azog the Goblin."...."And Thrain your father went away on the twenty-first of April, a hundred years ago last Thursday, and has never been seen by you since."..."Well your father gave me this to give to you...Your father could not remember his own name when he gave me the paper, and he never told me yours!"
Other observations:
I'm kind of wondering what Gandalf meant when he said:
"....I will give you what you asked for!" When he first came to see Bilbo. Because I don't think Bilbo asked for anything! Or was he just implying that he's giving him what he deserves?
I also really like that quote about Good Morning that Beriadanwen mentioned ![Happy :)](./images/smilies/cheerful1.gif)
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Post subject: Re: Dark for Dark Business (TRG Discussion- Ch. 1) Posted: July 4th, 2005, 9:49 pm |
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Joined: 03 June 2005 Posts: 5602 Location: Canada Country:
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Gilraen Ringeril wrote: Do you think that what sent Thorin’s Grandfather out of his wits was the fear of the Nazgul/The Black Breath (It is very well possible that there were Nazgul there), or was it just Orc/Goblin abuse?--I'm a bit confused by this question. Wasn't Thorin's father the one that went crazy? Because it says here: Hobbit wrote: "Your grandfather Thror was killed, you remember, in the mines of Moria by Azog the Goblin."...."And Thrain your father went away on the twenty-first of April, a hundred years ago last Thursday, and has never been seen by you since."..."Well your father gave me this to give to you...Your father could not remember his own name when he gave me the paper, and he never told me yours!" Yes you're right ![Happy :)](./images/smilies/cheerful1.gif) Gilraen Ringeril wrote: Other observations: I'm kind of wondering what Gandalf meant when he said: "....I will give you what you asked for!" When he first came to see Bilbo. Because I don't think Bilbo asked for anything! Or was he just implying that he's giving him what he deserves?
I believe that Bilbo asked for Gandalf's pardon. I actually had to read that part like 3 times before I got what he was talking about.
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Post subject: Posted: July 5th, 2005, 12:20 pm |
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What’s your impression of Gandalf so far in comparison to the LotR books?
My impression of Gandalf is that he's not as worried about a few things at the moment and he can enjoy freetime more and easily without worrying what will happen to this or that. I don't know but over all he's just more layed back and doesn't think that Thorin and Co. will do anything too bad to kill them all or atleast nothing he can't save them from. I also think he enjoys the adventures themselfs better.
What WOULD you do if an uninvited dwarf came and hung up his things in your hall, without a word of explanation?
I would probably be in shock for the first few minutes while the dwarf looks weirdly at me. I think when I would finally come to my sences that I would sorta ask the dwarf in a daze but kindly
"I don't mean to be rude but what are you doing here and who are you?"
Yes I would even ask the last part even if he had already told me his name. I think in the end I would still have him stay for tea but I would be a freaked out about the whole thing.
Dwalin is described as having a “blue beardâ€
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Post subject: Posted: July 5th, 2005, 9:09 pm |
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What’s your impression of Gandalf so far in comparison to the LotR books?
~Gandalf seems more of a hobbit himself, he is more laid back and is enjoying his time in the Shire. We see a lighter side of him
What WOULD you do if an uninvited dwarf came and hung up his things in your hall, without a word of explanation?
~I would not appreciate the dwarf at first, coming into my abode uninvited. But once I think i talked to the dwarf and learned his motives for his actions, I would probably have a different view on things.
Dwalin is described as having a “blue beardâ€
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Post subject: Posted: July 5th, 2005, 11:47 pm |
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Joined: 03 June 2005 Posts: 5602 Location: Canada Country:
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invisiblegirl wrote: I don't know but over all he's just more layed back and doesn't think that Thorin and Co. will do anything too bad to kill them all or atleast nothing he can't save them from. I also think he enjoys the adventures themselfs better. Yes I got that impression too. Gandalf never actually thought that they'd get themselves killed. We get to see him in a more laid back light before an adventure, where as in LotR there's nothing to be laid back about. I hope that made some kind of sense. invisiblegirl wrote: basic games like jacks and they jacks would be gold or silver (the ball wouldn't anyways it wouldn't bounce-unless they made that possible). I think that's what they did to the basic toys and made them gold. Maybe like a silver rocking horse with a golden saddle and bridle. Something like that. Good guesses. I like them better than mine. Melian wrote: ~Gandalf seems more of a hobbit himself, he is more laid back and is enjoying his time in the Shire. We see a lighter side of him He's like an overgrown Hobbit ![Happy :)](./images/smilies/cheerful1.gif) That's what I love about Gandalf. Melian wrote: the Nazgul, though frightening, would not really just go after everything without the thought of the ring... though i may be wrong. Good point, I think you're probably right. Melian wrote: Some Random observation: Why would the dwarves taunt Bilbo with the song about breaking dishes and bending forks? Though they do not do what they say, why did they say it in the first place... hmmm?
Lol, I dunno. Maybe because it's amusing for the dwarves to see Bilbo get all flustered about them breaking his dishes.
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Post subject: Re: Dark for Dark Business (TRG Discussion- Ch. 1) Posted: July 6th, 2005, 12:13 am |
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Joined: 03 June 2005 Posts: 609 Location: Gondolin
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What’s your impression of Gandalf so far in comparison to the LotR books?
-I love him, and that's all I can say.
What WOULD you do if an uninvited dwarf came and hung up his things in your hall, without a word of explanation?
-I'd call the police.
[b]Dwalin is described as having a “blue beardâ€
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Post subject: Posted: July 6th, 2005, 5:21 am |
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Joined: 04 June 2005 Posts: 2671 Location: the Netherlands
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OK, here we go! I finished chapter 1 this morning (for the second time in two weeks) and here are my answers on the questions and some random observations.
-What’s your impression of Gandalf so far in comparison to the LotR books?
I can’t put it better than Melian and invisiblegirl!
What WOULD you do if an uninvited dwarf came and hung up his things in your hall, without a word of explanation?
As a hobbit I would probably react the same as Bilbo, but as myself, living here in the year 2005, I would react way different. I would let him in and ask him lots of questions. At last, a sign that Middle-earth exists!
Dwalin is described as having a “blue beardâ€
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Post subject: Posted: July 6th, 2005, 10:39 am |
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Joined: 04 June 2005 Posts: 4449 Location: Northern USA
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Melian wrote: Do you think that what sent Thorin’s Grandfather out of his wits was the fear of the Nazgul/The Black Breath (It is very well possible that there were Nazgul there), or was it just Orc/Goblin abuse? ~I think the Orc/Goblin abuse would cause him more fear... the Nazgul, though frightening, would not really just go after everything without the thought of the ring... though i may be wrong. That's a very good point! I didn't even really think of that ![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/wink.gif) Cuilwen wrote: What WOULD you do if an uninvited dwarf came and hung up his things in your hall, without a word of explanation? As a hobbit I would probably react the same as Bilbo, but as myself, living here in the year 2005, I would react way different. I would let him in and ask him lots of questions. At last, a sign that Middle-earth exists!
LOL! Me too! Culiwen wrote: Dwalin is described as having a “blue beard”. Do you think Tolkien meant that literally, or was it just the kind of black that looks blue-ish? I'm reading an illustrated edition of The Hobbit (illustrations from the animated film by Arthur Rankin) and they thought Tolkien didn't mean 'blue' literally. Dwalins beard is grey. I think that a blue beard would look very funny, but dwarves are serious (most of the time...) so they don't have really blue beards. Good point! Culiwen wrote: How would the dwarves singing about places “Far over the Misty Mountains cold”, wake up the “Took-ish” side in Bilbo? If I had a Took-ish side it would also be waken up hearing that song. Whenever I read that part I want to go on adventures with dwarves and elves, looking for treasures..
Same here
--I think this book club is getting off to a good start ![Happy :)](./images/smilies/cheerful1.gif)
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Post subject: Posted: July 6th, 2005, 3:33 pm |
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Joined: 04 June 2005 Posts: 2671 Location: the Netherlands
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Yes, the club has a good start!
I made up some other questions:
- Is there somebody here reading The Hobbit for the first time?
- If you read it for the second (third, fourth..) time: have you discovered something new in the first chapter?
-Why do you think Gandalf chose Bilbo for the expedition and not an other hobbit? (stupid question maybe, but I just want to hear your opinion)
- What do you think are the strongest points in chapter 1?
- Have you also noticed weak points?
Some new points to discuss about.
Cuilwen
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Post subject: Posted: July 7th, 2005, 12:57 am |
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Joined: 03 June 2005 Posts: 5602 Location: Canada Country:
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Cuilwen wrote: - Is there somebody here reading The Hobbit for the first time? - If you read it for the second (third, fourth..) time: have you discovered something new in the first chapter? I'm reading it for the fourth time and I've definately noticed new things because this time I'm going more slowly. I have a week to read each chapter so I notice every little thing, and I actually remember them because I want to post it all here! Truthfully I have a horrible memory and I think that this reading group will help me remember everything ![Happy :)](./images/smilies/cheerful1.gif) Cuilwen wrote: -Why do you think Gandalf chose Bilbo for the expedition and not an other hobbit? (stupid question maybe, but I just want to hear your opinion) Cause Bilbo's cool 8) Lol, well I don't know really because Gandalf had never actually met Bilbo before had he? When he came Bilbo had no idea who he was. It's strange actually that he picked him. I think there might be more information about this in 'Unfinished Tales' which includea a tale about Gandalf's plans with the dwarves and his arrival at Bag End. I haven't read it yet though. Cuilwen wrote: - What do you think are the strongest points in chapter 1? - Have you also noticed weak points?
Hmmm...it's hard to say. I love it all ![Happy :)](./images/smilies/cheerful1.gif) Especially the parts with Bilbo. Well you're probably thinking "what is she talking about? Bilbo is always there." and that's what I'm thinking too. I don't really know what I'm saying actually...I just love Bilbo; he's so funny ![Happy :)](./images/smilies/cheerful1.gif)
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Post subject: Posted: July 7th, 2005, 7:26 am |
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Joined: 04 June 2005 Posts: 2671 Location: the Netherlands
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I love Gandalf's good-morning-quote:
"What do you mean?" he said. "Do you wish me a good morning or mean that it is a good morning whether I want it or not; or that you feel good this morning; or that it is a morning to be good on?"
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Post subject: Posted: July 7th, 2005, 9:12 am |
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Joined: 03 June 2005 Posts: 609 Location: Gondolin
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Me too! I also love this:
"I will give you what you asked for."
"I didn't ask for anything."
"Yes you have, twice now. Your pardon."
I'm not sure if that's exactly how it goes, but it's something like that.
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Post subject: Posted: July 7th, 2005, 11:29 am |
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Joined: 04 June 2005 Posts: 4449 Location: Northern USA
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Cuilwen wrote: 1)Is there somebody here reading The Hobbit for the first time? 2)If you read it for the second (third, fourth..) time: have you discovered something new in the first chapter? 3)Why do you think Gandalf chose Bilbo for the expedition and not an other hobbit? (stupid question maybe, but I just want to hear your opinion) 4)What do you think are the strongest points in chapter 1? 5)Have you also noticed weak points?
2)This is my second time reading the Hobbit, but my mom read it to me when I was pretty young before, so I don't really remember that much of it. So I don't even remember if I'm finding new things! ![Happy :)](./images/smilies/cheerful1.gif) (that didn't make much sense, did it? lol)
3) I have no idea how Gandalf would pick Bilbo, especially since they hadn't met yet. "Meditate on this I will." lol ![Lol :lol:](./images/smilies/lol.gif) j/k!
4) I'm not quite sure...I really liked the dwarves song though...it reminded me of when Frodo and co. first arrived in Rivendell, with all the elves singing
5) I've noticed some sentences/phrases that do not sound like Tolkien at all! I can't remember exactly what they were, but they just sounded...wrong
I also love that good morning quote! It's great! ![Grin :D](./images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
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Post subject: Posted: July 8th, 2005, 11:54 am |
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Joined: 06 May 2005 Posts: 2120 Location: midwest Country:
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Now, FINALLY, I'll post. 8)
Quote: What’s your impression of Gandalf so far in comparison to the LotR books? Gandalf, Gandalf, Gandalf. He's serious all right, but his sense of humor REALLY shines forth in this adventure. He's also a bit wiley, which is something I don't sense from LotR. Gandalf knows what he wants done and figures out a way to get the others to get involved. Quite a character, really, a wise one too, though. Quote: What WOULD you do if an uninvited dwarf came and hung up his things in your hall, without a word of explanation? I really have no idea. I can imagine being in such total shock that I simply follow him around the house, nodding and doing his bidding in regards to my pantry...I can imagine grabbing my dog, putting her between us, and threatening to use the Art of Frying Pan...I can imagine calling border patrole and saying I think there's some illegal alien who's forced entry and might be smuggling drugs or something...I really don't know!
[quote]Dwalin is described as having a “blue beardâ€
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