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| Author: | Fíriel_18190 [ March 13th, 2007, 12:54 pm ] |
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I don't think that the Moriquendi were evil elves either. Some of them were twisted into orcs by Morgoth, but the others were just woodelves who hadn't been to Valinor. They didn't really care for the wars with Morgoth since they didn't live in Beleriand. That's how I always thought of them. |
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| Author: | Eä [ March 13th, 2007, 3:21 pm ] |
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The Moriquendi (literally dark elves) are called dark or Avari (the Unwilling) because they didn't answer the summon to go to Valinor and never saw the light of the Two Trees. It is said that some of the Moriquendi later were corrupted by Morgoth and turned into what later became orcs. But Tolkien never stated anything about evil elves or Dark Elves like those in later fantasy. So to me your original idea of the Moriquendi sounds right. 
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| Author: | Aerandir [ March 14th, 2007, 2:37 am ] |
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Yeah, the Moriquendi are just what Eä said--they are the elves who never went to Valinor and saw the light of the Valar. In modern fantasy literature, though, Dark Elves with evil red eyes and such are fairly common, normally as the enemies of the normal elves. I like Tolkien's style best. 
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| Author: | Fíriel_18190 [ March 14th, 2007, 3:37 pm ] |
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Yeah me too Aerandir - definitely. I could never imagine evil elves with read eyes and so on |
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| Author: | Aerandir [ March 15th, 2007, 2:58 am ] |
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I can imagine them, but not in LotR or Tolkien's works. Not with his elves. |
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| Author: | kattibrie [ March 15th, 2007, 9:53 am ] |
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Aerandir wrote: Yeah, the Moriquendi are just what Eä said--they are the elves who never went to Valinor and saw the light of the Valar.
In modern fantasy literature, though, Dark Elves with evil red eyes and such are fairly common, normally as the enemies of the normal elves. I like Tolkien's style best. Yeah, Aerandir, you're right. In the beginning I couldn't understand who the dark elves are too. The red-eyed white haired drows (drow is the name for dark elves, not Tolkien's though) appeared first (as far as I know) in R. A. Salvatore's "The dark elf trilogy", "the Icewind dale trilogy" and so on... And it seems that people prefer them... I like Tolkien's elves. No... I love Drizzt and the other drows... Wait... Um... No, I cannot decide! They are completely different and i couldn't compare them! I like all kind of elves!!!
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| Author: | Aerandir [ March 15th, 2007, 3:23 pm ] |
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Lol, Kattibrie. While I know that Drows are present in the Forgotten Realms, I'm fairly certain that Dark Elves have been used in other pieces of literature before it. I don't actually know when it was published, other than a while ago, but Raymond E. Feist's series The Riftwar Saga, contains a bunch of Moredhel--Dark Elves, directly translated. However, Drow are probably almost original to the FR. |
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| Author: | kattibrie [ March 16th, 2007, 11:57 am ] |
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Aerandir wrote: Lol, Kattibrie. While I know that Drows are present in the Forgotten Realms, I'm fairly certain that Dark Elves have been used in other pieces of literature before it. I don't actually know when it was published, other than a while ago, but Raymond E. Feist's series The Riftwar Saga, contains a bunch of Moredhel--Dark Elves, directly translated.
However, Drow are probably almost original to the FR. Sorry 
I said I wasn't sure... As for the original Moriquendi - Nik Perumov used them in the Lotr sequence... |
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| Author: | Aerandir [ March 17th, 2007, 5:44 am ] |
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Oh, it's not a problem at all. And note--by Drows, I was specifically referring to white-haired, red-eyed Dark Elves. When you say that Nik Perumov used Moriquendi in the LotR Sequence, well...if it has to do with LotR, is it that surprising? I mean, LotR Dark Elves would kind of be expected to be the Dark Elves in a LotR thing.
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| Author: | Aerandir [ March 17th, 2007, 2:16 pm ] |
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Nika, eh? *pokes Nika too* People shouldn't say such things about Tolkien's elves. [insert threatening glare here] |
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| Author: | Darrell [ March 20th, 2007, 1:23 pm ] |
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Ok, we need to fine tune this a little, as the Tolkien stuff is not entirely accurate. Moriquendi were the elves who never saw the light of the Two Trees in Valinor. But not all Moriquendi were Avari (the Unwilling). Indeed, a very large proportion of the Moriquendi came from the Teleri, the largest and slowest host of elves who undertook the journey to Valinor. [This is where it gets a bit complicated  ]
Those of the Teleri who left the march east of the Misty Mountains are called the Nandor. Because the abondoned the journey, they never saw the Light, but are accounted among the Eldar as they started the journey. After a time, some of the Nandor came across the mountains into Beleriand, and dwelt in Ossiriand. [These were the Green Elves that are mentioned in the Silmarillion. Their official name is the Laiquendi] During the journey, in Beleriand Elwe (as is told in the Sil.) was lost, and some of his people stayed to look for him. These later became the Elves that populated Doriath, and are known as the Sindar, the Grey elves. The Sindar, the Nandor, and the Laiquendi are all classed as Umanyar, which is the Eldar who were 'not of Aman'. Both the Umanyar and the Avari are Moriquendi. And as I'm sure you know, not all those were turned to 'evil' purposes 
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| Author: | Aerandir [ March 20th, 2007, 1:39 pm ] |
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I don't think anyone has implied that they are turned to 'evil' purposes, Wandering. If you look at both Eä's and my posts, we both said that the Moriquendi were those elves who had not been to Valinor and seen the light of Aman. |
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| Author: | Darrell [ March 20th, 2007, 2:32 pm ] |
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Aerandir wrote: I don't think anyone has implied that they are turned to 'evil' purposes, Wandering. If you look at both Eä's and my posts, we both said that the Moriquendi were those elves who had not been to Valinor and seen the light of Aman. Well, it was partly in reference to the stuff that was said about Dark Elves in general, rather than specifically the Tolkien related posts... Aerlinn wrote: Thanks for explaning the whole Avari/Umanyar thingy Wandering
It isn't very clear in the books... @ Aerandir - eh...I might have said something like that. Some of them were twisted into orcs after all. That's kinda an 'evil' purpose. And it was also partly in reference to the Avari becoming Orcs, as someone earlier in the topic implied that the Moriquendi were Avari only. Which they are not
No problem Aerlinn. I didn't really understand it first off, but the diagram in the back of the Silmarillion really helps to explain it. I was consulting it when i made the post. |
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| Author: | Aerandir [ March 21st, 2007, 8:37 am ] |
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Okay then, AWD. If that's what you were referring to, then I understand now. thanks.
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