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 Post subject: Elrond and Elros
PostPosted: January 19th, 2012, 12:53 am 
Gondorian
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Hey everyone! I was thinking (and reading and writing a fanfic) about Elrond Half-Elven. The last time I read the Simarillon, I realized that Elrond had a brother, Elros. I was wondering what other people thought of this. Here are the things I think are big questions:
* Are they twins or not?
* Which one is older?
* Do they remember their parents?
* How well exactly did they get along with Maglor(who at least had a hand in raising them)?
And what I think is the biggest question of all:
* Why did Elros choose to be mortal, while Elrond stayed an Elf?

I would love to hear others opinons on this!

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 Post subject: Re: Elrond and Elros
PostPosted: February 10th, 2012, 3:35 pm 
Dwarf
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He was a twin to Elros, and Elros becamew the first king to the Numenor. his parents were Earendil and Elwing and a great grandson of Luthien, making him able to chose between mortality and immortality.
That's all i know about him,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elros#Elros_Tar-Minyatur
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elrond
But also check out this website
www.tuckborough.net/

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 Post subject: Re: Elrond and Elros
PostPosted: January 12th, 2013, 10:36 pm 
Hobbit
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I think that maybe Elrond was older. Maybe that had something to do with him being counted among the first born.

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 Post subject: Re: Elrond and Elros
PostPosted: April 15th, 2017, 5:55 am 
Dunedain Ranger of Arnor
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I'm not sure where it says that Elrond and Elros were twins, and I don't think one being older than the other had anything to do with whether they were counted as Eldar or Edain. I believe they both were given the choice, and they chose accordingly.

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 Post subject: Re: Elrond and Elros
PostPosted: April 16th, 2017, 12:48 pm 
Istari
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I'm pretty certain Elrond and Elros were twins since both were born in FA532. And, quoting from the Tolkien Gateway entry on the subject:

Quote:
Elros and Elrond were born in the Havens of Sirion during the darkest days of the First Age, when the forces of Morgoth controlled most of Beleriand. When the twins were just six years old, the Sons of Fëanor, bound by their Oath, assaulted the Havens in the Third Kinslaying since they desired the Silmaril on the Nauglamir held by Eärendil. He was at sea, and Elwing barely escaped with the Nauglamir.

Maedhros and Maglor, the only Sons of Fëanor to repudiate their deeds, spared the twin boys and raised them for a time. They were later found by other elves as the twins were playing by a forest waterfall under the starlight; these gave him the name Elros meaning "star-foam" (see Etymology) and protected them through the end of the First Age.

After the War of Wrath and the destruction of Beleriand, the Valar gave the twin Peredhil the choice over their race and fate. Elros chose the Gift of Men,[1] but still, he was blessed with the longest life than any other mortal Man's.


I believe that twins are relatively common in the Tolkien legendarium for some reason, and that the first named is the eldest of the two.

Elven and Half-elven Twins:

Amrod and Amras
Eluréd and Elurín
Elrond and Elros
Elrohir and Elladan

Mannish Twins:

Haleth and Haldar
Folcred and Fastred

I would be interested in any information others may have on the subject.

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 Post subject: Re: Elrond and Elros
PostPosted: April 16th, 2017, 8:33 pm 
Gondorian
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The actual Tolkienian text [well, a later-ish one] is The Tale of Years [First Age], an added entry [528>] "532: Elros and Elrond twin sons of Earendil born." JRRT, The War of The Jewels

Also, The Tolkien Gateway article quoted above contains a possible conflation in my opinion [not that quoting it means you agree with everything in it, Evil Shieldmaiden, this just gives me a chance to blather on again about names]. The impression in the entry refers to a scenario Tolkien described in a letter written in 1958, that Elros and Elrond got their names from being found in a cave with a waterfall over the entrance, Elrond in the cave, Elros dabbling in the water. Here Elrond means "Elf-cave [as in a cavern]", and Elros means "Elf-spray, [of fall or fountain; ros could also mean dew]"

But years later [possibly more than a decade later] Tolkien imagines a different scenario: in texts dated 1968 [or later] it's Elwing who names Elros "Star-foam" and Elrond "Star-dome", their names being formed to recall her name, the word ros meaning "foam, the white crest of waves, or spindrift as of water blown by the wind or falling steeply over rocks" [note Cair Andros "Ship of Long Foam" in The Lord of the Rings,] and Elrond contains a word for the starry firmament, the starry dome, given in memory of the Menelrond in Menegroth.


Quote:
Etymology from Tolkien Gateway: Elros is a Sindarin name meaning "Elf of the spray", based on a tale from his early childhood when the Sons of Fëanor abducted the twins until Maedhros found them playing in a forest waterfall. Alternatively, his name could mean "star-foam".


Alternatively? Yes ;-) as "Star-foam" is the later idea.

I get that both these ideas existed in a "1950s context or later" [and granting a notion of confusion between "star and elf words" too], but that doesn't necessarily mean that Tolkien meant for both these meanings to be internal... just sayin'...

... anyway... I likes names :-D


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 Post subject: Re: Elrond and Elros
PostPosted: April 17th, 2017, 2:25 pm 
Istari
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Thanks for the information, Elthir.

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