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Bag End Fireside: Discussion for the TRG
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Author:  Ivreniel [ September 9th, 2005, 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Bag End Fireside: Discussion for the TRG
This thread is an experiment. The idea is that we can have a continual discussion thread rather than a new thread every week.

But there's more to the common room. I've noticed that many of y'all are great at coming up with the most interesting observations and some wonderful questions. So I'll try to only post a few questions for each chapter from now on and let everyone help create our own discussion. :D

Have fun with chapters 6-8! I'll provide a few Qs from each chapter to start y'all off!

1) It's not infrequent that Humans have trouble lying. Yet Gandalf seems suspicious that Bilbo falsified his information. What makes Gandalf think this, and why would he be suspicious of some outside force corrupting him?

2) Notice the contrast between the eagles and the bad 'uns, namely wargs and goblins, esp. the leaders of the different kinds. Do you notice anything in particular, ways the goblin and warg leaders seem to operate as opposed to the way the "good folk" such as the lord of the eagles speaks and makes decisions?

3) Beorn is another strange man in Middle-Earth, almost as strange as Tom Bombadil. Gandalf obviously entertains a lot of respect for him. What kind of man do you think he is, or is he perhaps something other than a man?

4) We learn later that Gandalf rides off to deal with Sauron, or try to, at the White Council. Any theories of adventures etc. he may have had?

5) Who do you suppose might have made the path through Mirkwood? The elves, perhaps; yet they had their own secret trails. So who or what first made the main Mirkwood trail ???
Author:  SCP [ September 10th, 2005, 9:03 am ]
Post subject: 
Well I'm halfway chapter 7 now so I can't answer all questions but I found it a little quiet here so I thought I'd just put some things up here.

1) It's not infrequent that Humans have trouble lying. Yet Gandalf seems suspicious that Bilbo falsified his information. What makes Gandalf think this, and why would he be suspicious of some outside force corrupting him?
In the unfinished tales it tells a lot about Gandalfs motivations. Sauron was already a threath. But I think he know Bilbo and hobbits and could see some lie in his behavior. Plus, Bilbo's story was very very rare to really happen like this.

2) Notice the contrast between the eagles and the bad 'uns, namely wargs and goblins, esp. the leaders of the different kinds. Do you notice anything in particular, ways the goblin and warg leaders seem to operate as opposed to the way the "good folk" such as the lord of the eagles speaks and makes decisions?
I don't understand the question exactly but I did find it strange that Bilbo could hear and understand the eagles speaking. There are no other animals in the story that can speak to hobbits. Bilbo also doesn't hear the horses, sheeps etc. talking when they're with Beorn.

3) Beorn is another strange man in Middle-Earth, almost as strange as Tom Bombadil. Gandalf obviously entertains a lot of respect for him. What kind of man do you think he is, or is he perhaps something other than a man?
I have no idea who or what he is. He seems not to be a man. He can talk to the animals and is very tall, taller than Gandalf. So he must be some other kind of creature or maybe a mixture between man and bear or something like that??? Does anyone ever read something else about him or someone like him? (I haven't read that much different Tolkien books comparing to all diehard Tolkien fans)

And that's all I've read untill now. But I have some questions myself.

Now you've seen the wargs in the movies I how do you feel about the way they were made (I'm sorry, I know this is a book discussion, but I've always found the wargs in the movie strange and now I know why) In the book it seems to me the wargs are bigger than normal wolves and also smarter, since they stick to the trees. They do have meetings with the goblins. Would they ever let orcs ride upon them?

Bilbo has to grab Dori's ancles when the eagles come to save them from the goblins and wargs. Where the Dwarfs or the eagles planning on leaving him, or....?

The dwarfs have to come in pairs of two. Why did Gandalf bring Bilbo with him at first and not Thorin who seems to be the leader. And why didn't Thorin resist to this, since he does not like Bilbo that much?
Author:  Lady Nienna Melwasuul [ September 10th, 2005, 5:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hello everyone :) ,I have not re-read chapter 6, but I'll try and answer the first question from what I know. I will try and post my answer later. Just wanted to say hi :)
~Namarie :bye2:
Lady Nienna
Author:  Elberethsq [ September 12th, 2005, 10:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Okay, my answers . . .

1) It's not infrequent that Humans have trouble lying. Yet Gandalf seems suspicious that Bilbo falsified his information. What makes Gandalf think this, and why would he be suspicious of some outside force corrupting him?
Gandalf is a wizard, so it's natural that he has a sort of "third eye" to see things others might not . . . Naturally, he is wise and intelligent and not at all gullible.

2) Notice the contrast between the eagles and the bad 'uns, namely wargs and goblins, esp. the leaders of the different kinds. Do you notice anything in particular, ways the goblin and warg leaders seem to operate as opposed to the way the "good folk" such as the lord of the eagles speaks and makes decisions?
Naturally, the good ones maintain a noble and gracious look all or most of the time while the others . . . don't really act the same. Sorry, I know that's vague. I'm still thinking . . .

3) Beorn is another strange man in Middle-Earth, almost as strange as Tom Bombadil. Gandalf obviously entertains a lot of respect for him. What kind of man do you think he is, or is he perhaps something other than a man?
Well, here is what the Encyclopedia of Arda says about Beorn's race -
Encyclopedia of Arda wrote:
Tolkien explains that despite his remarkable abilities, Beorn definitely belonged to the race of Men: 'Though a skin-changer and no doubt a bit of a magician, Beorn was a Man'.

So if Tolkien says it, he must be a man, but one with elaborate abilities. His name, by the way, relates to the bear's love of honey, and contains béo, meaning 'bee'. This also appears in the name Beowulf: like Beorn, this means 'bear', but is literally 'bee-wolf'. This bee connection explains the references in The Hobbit to Beorn's bee-pastures and huge bees: 'The drones were bigger than your thumb, a good deal, and the bands of yellow on their deep black bodies shone like fiery gold' (The Hobbit 7, Queer Lodgings).
^I got that information from the Encyclopedia. :)

4) We learn later that Gandalf rides off to deal with Sauron, or try to, at the White Council. Any theories of adventures etc. he may have had?
Perhaps he would get in loud arguments with Sauron . . . it's late at night right now so I'm not really in my Sharp and Creative Mode. :blush: :)

5) Who do you suppose might have made the path through Mirkwood? The elves? Yet they had their own secret trails. ???
Ahh . . . the Elves. Almost definitely. They always maintain a kind of mysterious characteristic trait - which makes me like them in fact. :) Other names for Mirkwood are Eryn Lasgalen, Greenwood the Great, Taur-e-Ndaedelos, Wood of Greenleaves, and The Wood.

Sorry I'm straying off topic. But the elves probably made the path - or at least participated in it somehow. One or the others. But now I'm getting a brainstorm of dwarves . . . but that's unlikely . . .

*yawns* So! Anyone else want to share their opinions? :bye2:
Author:  Ivreniel [ September 20th, 2005, 10:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
1) It's not infrequent that Humans have trouble lying. Yet Gandalf seems suspicious that Bilbo falsified his information. What makes Gandalf think this, and why would he be suspicious of some outside force corrupting him?

Personally, I believe it's partly Gandalf's long-term experience with (I want to say human nature! you know what I mean) the nature of creatures would make him an astute observer of character. Plus, he knew Bilbo and would be able to read him, partly due to what I said before. But how did he put two + two together? Probably it's again due to his age, and also the fact that he's a maia. He'd be familiar with the corrupting influence of the ring, familiar with Bilbo's and hobbits' character, and for a wizard of his age, intelligent, and experience, well, he'd put it together.

Quote:
2) Notice the contrast between the eagles and the bad 'uns, namely wargs and goblins, esp. the leaders of the different kinds. Do you notice anything in particular, ways the goblin and warg leaders seem to operate as opposed to the way the "good folk" such as the lord of the eagles speaks and makes decisions?

For one thing the eagles and other "Good guys" are presented as being wiser, and show this by pondering delemas rather than being guided by impulse. You know, thsi is really different than in LotR. There the bad guys are much more cunning. Here they're simply presented as brutes with bad tempers.

3
Quote:
) Beorn is another strange man in Middle-Earth, almost as strange as Tom Bombadil. Gandalf obviously entertains a lot of respect for him. What kind of man do you think he is, or is he perhaps something other than a man?

Elberethsq, I love your answer to this. I don't think there's much to add, except that he reminds me of the titans in greek mythology a tiny bit, or of a god, perhaps.

Quote:
4) We learn later that Gandalf rides off to deal with Sauron, or try to, at the White Council. Any theories of adventures etc. he may have had?

You could create a whole story around this one, folks. Hey, how'd this be to tackle at a TRG chat? :) I wonder though if perhaps since the wargs and goblins had retreated to nurse their hurts and gather forces, he would have encountered an earie silence crossing the lands...

that's all I've read untill now. But I have some questions myself.

Quote:
Now you've seen the wargs in the movies I how do you feel about the way they were made (I'm sorry, I know this is a book discussion, but I've always found the wargs in the movie strange and now I know why) In the book it seems to me the wargs are bigger than normal wolves and also smarter, since they stick to the trees. They do have meetings with the goblins. Would they ever let orcs ride upon them?

Bilbo has to grab Dori's ancles when the eagles come to save them from the goblins and wargs. Where the Dwarfs or the eagles planning on leaving him, or....?

The dwarfs have to come in pairs of two. Why did Gandalf bring Bilbo with him at first and not Thorin who seems to be the leader. And why didn't Thorin resist to this, since he does not like


The wargs in the movies were too much like great big monstrous bears. I had a hard time imagining that they could speak or do anything other than work as the SLAVES of the orcs, sort of a mutilated horse, just as the orcs were of elves.

I don't think the dwarves or eagles were planning on leaving him there, any more than they meant to drop Bilbo on the ground in the tunnel and leave him. In a rush as they were, and such a small thing as he was, the dwarves would only be thinking of their own skins and the eagles concentrating on who and what was obvious...they were probably nervous about the fire themselves!

Probably Gandalf brought Bilbo with him first because a) he wanted to keep an eye on him with that ring he had (he might have tried to spy!) and b) what a better creature to soften Beorn's heart than dear old Bilbo? :)
Author:  Arsarniel [ November 9th, 2005, 6:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
Okay, discussion time open again! :D

I'll start us off, but you must pick up the ball and keep it rolling!

1) Chapter 13 opens with a description of the tight situation in which the dwarves and Bilbo find themselves, then contrasts how the dwarves are feeling (their reaction to the situation) with Bilbo's optimism. Immediately after, Bilbo demonstrates a bit more pluck then the dwarves. Do you think there is a connection? Why or Why Not?

2) Why do you think Bilbo took the Arkenstone for himself?

3) Notice the bit of comic relief in the chapter. What is it, and how much of little of an effect does it have on you as a reader?

4) Balin talks about the complacency of the dwarves in watching for Smaug. This adds a little bit of darkness and depth to the story. Does it remind you about anything of the situation in which Middle-Earth finds itself in LotR? It does me. What does it make you think of?
Author:  Ivreniel [ December 27th, 2005, 12:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
All right, this is now officially de-topped and non-members as well as TRG members may post their thoughts about The Hobbit in it.

Prepare for LotR! *trumpets blare*
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