Just wondering...

Where did Iluvatar come from?


Did he pop out of the ground... like a daisy?!?!

Peace Out,
Tasare

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Um, the whole concept of Iluvatar would be unrealistic if he began. I think that he always existed, never really beginning. Besides....there wasn't any ground for him to pop out of. ^_^

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Lol, I like the idea of Ilúvatar being a daisy... beautiful metaphor! But... I wonder who watered it....

*ahem* Well, I agree with Aerandir.. the concept of a creator is that he/she creates, and is beyond time and space.

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Yes, exactly, Illuvetar is supposed to be a being completely out of time, who has always existed and always will exist. Rather mind-boggling, isn't it?

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Tolkien intended for Eru (the One, the One and Only) Illuvatar (Father over all) to be eternal - completely outside time, completely outside of space. He creates the rules of creation therefore he was never created.

(not unlike...uh...never mind )

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Yet never within grasp of it
We have never seen hope defined
But we have it here with us
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♥ Elf-Maiden for Christ! ♥
Hijo de Christo
Hen a-Eru

^^^What Aduial said...

in essenece, Tolkien's Eru was God....the creator couldn't have been created. That just wouldn't make sense...

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Ilúvatar is just the real god of the world, therefore he had no beginning and will have no ending. As Tolkien was a devout Catholic, he saw Ilúvatar as the Christian God.

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We've been forever
yet we've only just begun.
We have come full circle.

Doesn't make sense to me either, so I just try and forget that part of the story

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{Beri}

Iluvatar is THE creator - like God. He was always there and always will be. And if you don't believe in god, (which i don't) Think of him as the Universe. It always was there, and it always will be there. It's neverending and forever eternal.

That's how i understand it anways.

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Snow white, snow white, o Lady clear,
O Light to us that wander here.

He was always there. He just is. He's the creator of everything, so yeah, think of him as god, if you beleive in him.

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Yeah, hehe. Instead of saying "Oh God!" now, I tend to say "Illuvatar!" lol

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Snow white, snow white, o Lady clear,
O Light to us that wander here.

I say By Elbereth! People stare at me...

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Here's also something to burn your brains on, he doesn't have time, he exists outside of it, he looks upon history from outside like a huge map.

[philosophical]
Or... there could be many different levels of creators and creations. Now that's a confusing thought.

[/philosophical]

back on subject, the reason that the idea is so hard to comprehend is because we live where everything has a beginning and an end, where we live is more commonly called time. and if I were beyond this, I would be unaffected by time, which would be below me. thus god could be interpreted as a being in a higher dimension.