Rules      FAQ       Register        Login
It is currently December 17th, 2017, 1:25 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 213 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Suggestion - The Elvish Section
PostPosted: December 15th, 2012, 1:20 am 
Welcomator
Welcomator
User avatar

Joined: 10 July 2005
Posts: 23149
Location: Where there are handsome heroes and sexy villains.. all that need some lovin' ;)
Country: Gondor (xg)
Gender: Female

Offline
Thank you. My sanity has been restored.

_________________
Image

Image

^ By me and my SS *squiggle hugs*


Top
 Profile       WWW            
 
 Post subject: Re: Suggestion - The Elvish Section
PostPosted: December 15th, 2012, 6:07 am 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: 04 June 2005
Posts: 12592
Gender: Female

Offline
Look alright to me now. Good job to everyone involved. :-)

_________________
>>Be the change you wish to see in the world<<
Image

Image
Banner credit: Shadowcat & Nurrantiel Mashiara


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject: Re: Suggestion - The Elvish Section
PostPosted: December 15th, 2012, 8:08 am 
Balrog
Balrog
User avatar

Joined: 30 December 2006
Posts: 3507
Location: Over the Edge of the Wild
Country: Rohan (xr)
Gender: Female

Offline
So, I may have missed something, but as far as I know we never agreed that the old contents of the Elvish section were to be removed. I'm specifically talking about the lists of name translations which, while they may not have been correct Elvish, were a fun addition to the site that I know many of us wanted to keep.

I know you especially, dreamingfifi, didn't want them there, but I think that they should be put back and that we can get around the problem of how they're not "proper Elvish" by stating clearly at the top of the page that this is not a list to look at for someone who wants perfectly translated names. I don't see how it's a problem to keep this in as long as we're clear about how this is different from the rest of the Elvish section. There has also been questions from other people who are wondering where they went.

_________________

Image
by Lembas


Top
 Profile       WWW            
 
 Post subject: Re: Suggestion - The Elvish Section
PostPosted: December 15th, 2012, 10:48 am 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: 04 June 2005
Posts: 12592
Gender: Female

Offline
I liked the names too. I think there should be some kind of name list on the site.

_________________
>>Be the change you wish to see in the world<<
Image

Image
Banner credit: Shadowcat & Nurrantiel Mashiara


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject: Re: Suggestion - The Elvish Section
PostPosted: December 15th, 2012, 10:57 am 
Welcomator
Welcomator
User avatar

Joined: 10 July 2005
Posts: 23149
Location: Where there are handsome heroes and sexy villains.. all that need some lovin' ;)
Country: Gondor (xg)
Gender: Female

Offline
Without doubt that section needs to be on AU. We have discussed this before and I'm pretty sure that the majority of AU wanted to have them kept on the site. Just reading the comments on the guestbook, you can see how many people liked that Elvish page.

We should cater for all tastes on AU. The ones who really want to learn Elvish, and the ones happy to just speak a little bit of something, even if it's not phonetically correct or whatever.

As long as we add something to the top of the page so people know what they are getting (although I see this as more of a goodwill compromise on our part I wouldn't really botherered if it said nothing) then I really think our Elvish section needs to have restored to it a page which many people have been enjoying for many years.

_________________
Image

Image

^ By me and my SS *squiggle hugs*


Top
 Profile       WWW            
 
 Post subject: Re: Suggestion - The Elvish Section
PostPosted: December 15th, 2012, 4:00 pm 
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
User avatar

Joined: 19 January 2012
Posts: 181
Location: Orodrim
Country: United States (us)
Gender: Female

Offline
Alright, I'll make a new names page. Give me a little time, and it'll be done. I recall that we were going to do this anyways.

I'll do simple English names, I'll source where I got the translation from, and I'll focus on making the names genderless as possible (because names have an annoying habit of switching genders because parents like being weird)

There'll be a IPA transcription of the names too.

I'll try to make the names in a way that will make them long weathering as possible, which means absolutely no reconstructions.

The names will have literal translations of the elvish parts used to make them too, so people can be certain that the name means what they want (and information about any gendered suffixes can be included)

Do we want Quenya or Sindarin or both? Quenya has a much bigger vocabulary, and I already have a lot of names translated into Sindarin on my website.

The Format:

A table with each TR being 1 name.
First TD:
Englishname (linking to the the source of its meaning)
Paragraph below it will have its meaning and any notes on how I had to change it, and what the name literally means in Elvish.
Second TD:
Elvishname (using the "elvish" tag, so it'll be bold and white)
words+used+to+make+the+name
Phonetic transcription. (using the "pronunciation" tag so it'll be in Calibri and Grey)
Possible 3rd TD
For a different Elvish language if you want it.

I think this is the minimum amount of information that we want to include.

Nurr, do I have a go ahead on building this, or would you prefer to make a template for me and have me stick to that?

Example of the information:

Angela
It is a feminine version of "Angel". Because the nearest thing to Angels in the Middle-earth mythos is the Maiar, the Elvish version means "Maia-woman".
Maianis (Quenya)
from "maia+nís"
Pronounced: /ˈmaj.a.nis/
No Sindarin Equivalent

_________________
My websites: Merin Essi ar Quenteli! and Your Sindarin Textbook


Top
 Profile       WWW            
 
 Post subject: Re: Suggestion - The Elvish Section
PostPosted: December 15th, 2012, 4:46 pm 
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
User avatar

Joined: 19 January 2012
Posts: 181
Location: Orodrim
Country: United States (us)
Gender: Female

Offline
Until I know what format you want, I'll just gather information for it.

_________________
My websites: Merin Essi ar Quenteli! and Your Sindarin Textbook


Top
 Profile       WWW            
 
 Post subject: Re: Suggestion - The Elvish Section
PostPosted: December 15th, 2012, 7:00 pm 
Balrog
Balrog
User avatar

Joined: 30 December 2006
Posts: 3507
Location: Over the Edge of the Wild
Country: Rohan (xr)
Gender: Female

Offline
Does it really have to be this complicated? Can't we just put the old lists back the way they were? Most people just want to look at the names and find something they like, they really don't need a ton of detailed information about the name...

_________________

Image
by Lembas


Top
 Profile       WWW            
 
 Post subject: Re: Suggestion - The Elvish Section
PostPosted: December 15th, 2012, 7:44 pm 
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
User avatar

Joined: 19 January 2012
Posts: 181
Location: Orodrim
Country: United States (us)
Gender: Female

Offline
The old lists are absolutely horrible. There's no way I'm putting my name on that garbage.

So, how about just a literal Elvish meaning, instead of giving both?

Some samples:

Anna
“Eru gift”.

Sindarin: Eruant
eru+ant
/ˈɛ.ru.ant/

Quenya: Eruanna
eru+anna
/ɛ.ru.ˈan.na/

Bart
“son of crooked one”

Sindarin: Raenion
raen+-ion
/ˈraɛ.ni.ɔn/

Quenya: Raicion
raica+-ion
/ˈraj.ki.ɔn/

_________________
My websites: Merin Essi ar Quenteli! and Your Sindarin Textbook


Top
 Profile       WWW            
 
 Post subject: Re: Suggestion - The Elvish Section
PostPosted: December 15th, 2012, 7:51 pm 
Balrog
Balrog
User avatar

Joined: 30 December 2006
Posts: 3507
Location: Over the Edge of the Wild
Country: Rohan (xr)
Gender: Female

Offline
No one's asking you to put your name on it.

But this second opinion does look better than the first one. I want to hear what the others say before we make any kind of decision, though.

_________________

Image
by Lembas


Top
 Profile       WWW            
 
 Post subject: Re: Suggestion - The Elvish Section
PostPosted: December 15th, 2012, 8:17 pm 
Welcomator
Welcomator
User avatar

Joined: 10 July 2005
Posts: 23149
Location: Where there are handsome heroes and sexy villains.. all that need some lovin' ;)
Country: Gondor (xg)
Gender: Female

Offline
dreamingfifi wrote:
The old lists are absolutely horrible. There's no way I'm putting my name on that garbage.


There are no names on AU.

We are all working on this site together. What we do we don't do for getting our name somewhere on the site. It doesn't matter what content we add, there are no credits or mentions or awards given for our particpiation. We do what we do and don't expect people to know our names.

So firstly let me say, this if you don't want to add the old AU Elvish to the Elvish section, that's fine. I'll pull the old page and add it myself. You won't have to have anything to do with it.

Secondly, it may be garbage to you, but AU is NOT and I repeat NOT all about the perfection of a made-up language. You have given people plenty of opportunity to learn the true and correct forms of Elvish, BUT we should also offer what people liked about this site - simple, clear and fun Elvish.

I cannot even comprehend your options for our old page, and I am almost 25 years old. I'm sure a little 11 year old coming to AU for the first time, might be appreciative of some simple fun before he or she moves onto the meatier things.

I do not understand why this has been such a problem. It is clear that the majority of the people who have voiced their concerns wanted our old page to be kept the same. It is quite frankly, not your decision as to whether we keep the old AU page or not when so many differ in opinion to you.

And this is an unoffical ruling that has been around on AU for a long time. Sometimes your opinion is not the favourite and you have to accept that and allow the majority opinion to carry.

Perhaps someone who knows more about Elvish can tell me that one of our options is better, but at the moment I am not convinced.

_________________
Image

Image

^ By me and my SS *squiggle hugs*


Top
 Profile       WWW            
 
 Post subject: Re: Suggestion - The Elvish Section
PostPosted: December 15th, 2012, 8:21 pm 
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
User avatar

Joined: 19 January 2012
Posts: 181
Location: Orodrim
Country: United States (us)
Gender: Female

Offline
if you want we can remove the part that lists the words the name was made from too. I don't like not showing how I reached a conclusion, but I can do it that way if you prefer.

ETA Like this:

Anna
“Eru gift”.
Sindarin: Eruant /ˈɛ.ru.ant/
Quenya: Eruanna /ɛ.ru.ˈan.na/

Bart
“son of crooked one”
Sindarin: Raenion /ˈraɛ.ni.ɔn/
Quenya: Raicion /ˈraj.ki.ɔn/

_________________
My websites: Merin Essi ar Quenteli! and Your Sindarin Textbook


Last edited by dreamingfifi on December 15th, 2012, 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile       WWW            
 
 Post subject: Re: Suggestion - The Elvish Section
PostPosted: December 15th, 2012, 8:24 pm 
Balrog
Balrog
User avatar

Joined: 30 December 2006
Posts: 3507
Location: Over the Edge of the Wild
Country: Rohan (xr)
Gender: Female

Offline
Can I just ask why you're so incredibly unwilling to just put the old lists back there? No one's asking you to say you made them (no one will know who made any of this stuff), and we've said that because it seems so important to you, we'll add a "this is not real elvish" disclaimer at the top of the page. So what is the big problem? I'm sure you have other things to do with your life, so surely you'd be happy that you don't have to do the extra work of making a new list!

_________________

Image
by Lembas


Top
 Profile       WWW            
 
 Post subject: Re: Suggestion - The Elvish Section
PostPosted: December 15th, 2012, 8:29 pm 
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
User avatar

Joined: 19 January 2012
Posts: 181
Location: Orodrim
Country: United States (us)
Gender: Female

Offline
I'm unwilling to because the old lists were one of my main problems with the old elvish section to begin with. They weren't just "simple and fun", they were absolutely awful translations. A female name suffix was used on male names, and the words were randomly changed into unrecognizable atrocities. Often they'd be long, cacophonous messes of abused Quenya and Sindarin.

As a linguist and a Tolkien-fan, I cannot let it stand.

_________________
My websites: Merin Essi ar Quenteli! and Your Sindarin Textbook


Top
 Profile       WWW            
 
 Post subject: Re: Suggestion - The Elvish Section
PostPosted: December 15th, 2012, 8:34 pm 
Balrog
Balrog
User avatar

Joined: 30 December 2006
Posts: 3507
Location: Over the Edge of the Wild
Country: Rohan (xr)
Gender: Female

Offline
As much as I can understand that, I think you need to realize it's not up to you alone. This is a discussion we've had before, with very little success, the main result of which was basically that you were alone against the rest of us in wanting to revamp it.

Now, I have nothing against you making an improved list. My problem is with the fact that right now there is no list, and it's one of the most popular parts of the Elvish section, and it needs to be there. By all means, if it means so much to you, make a new list. But make it easy. Make it not only user-friendly, but child-friendly. And most important of all, put the old list back while you're working.

_________________

Image
by Lembas


Top
 Profile       WWW            
 
 Post subject: Re: Suggestion - The Elvish Section
PostPosted: December 15th, 2012, 8:49 pm 
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
User avatar

Joined: 19 January 2012
Posts: 181
Location: Orodrim
Country: United States (us)
Gender: Female

Offline
Anameleth wrote:
Now, I have nothing against you making an improved list. My problem is with the fact that right now there is no list, and it's one of the most popular parts of the Elvish section, and it needs to be there. By all means, if it means so much to you, make a new list. But make it easy. Make it not only user-friendly, but child-friendly. And most important of all, put the old list back while you're working.
There are other parts of the website that aren't complete. What so awful about having a "work in progress" marker up for the day or two it takes me to do this? I'm working at top speed here. I already have over fifty names done in both Sindarin and Quenya with their pronunciations. I'd be getting more done if I didn't have to stop and argue over this, admittingly.

_________________
My websites: Merin Essi ar Quenteli! and Your Sindarin Textbook


Top
 Profile       WWW            
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 213 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron




Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Boyz theme by Zarron Media 2003