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 Post subject: Re: The final chapter, The Battle of the Five Armies.
PostPosted: December 29th, 2014, 12:42 pm 
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Bellatrix wrote:
I could be fine with a Tauriel/Kili love story. But throwing Legolas in there just messes up the next trilogy. Because then comes the questions "where did Tauriel go, is he still in love with her, did he ask her to leave Middle Earth, etc". I wish Legolas would have just loved her as a sister or something, because that would've made it all so much better.


I LOVED this film, and I loved Tauriel/Kili. I was against a love triangle from the start (especially with my Legolas!), and thankfully, we didn't get one. Here's some stuff I've said on other boards:

You can love someone deeply and unconditionally in any type of love.

Personally, I've been skeptical of Legolas/Tauriel from the start.

In DoS, Legolas's attitude is *are you crazy? He's a dwarf!*; and he doesn't really know anything (he didn't know what the orc was talking about, and he tells Tauriel it's not their fight). I mean, the whole, 'don't you think he's tall?' followed by Legolas looking at her like she lost her mind... "Taller than some, but no less ugly." That's definitely the reaction of a best friend, not a potential love interest.

Here, he's followed Bolg and seen the symbol of Gundabad. When daddy's messenger comes and says Tauriel's banished, he realizes that Thranduil is not going to be open minded. Legolas says he has to follow his heart - and immediately launches into what he saw and how he wants to go to Gundabad.

Legolas loves Tauriel, certainly. He confides in her about his mother, and he won't let Thranduil kill her without killing him. Elves are deep wells of emotion, it's how they're made. But I haven't seen anything that implies romantic love.

I think Legolas leaves because he's finally aware. He's been disillusioned from everything he's known. He needs to 'leave the nest', and find himself.

I think Thranduil's wrong in DoS - he even says he's "not so sure", so he's not completely convinced either way. Tauriel herself is shocked and disbelieving. Her jaw drops and she kind of has this 'I can't believe I'm hearing this' look on her face. Then she just looks disturbed (understandably so, since Thranduil is warning her off Legolas at the same time he is saying Legolas has feelings for her).

When Legolas comes across Tauriel and Kili in the beginning of BoFA, his face is serious but neutral. If he really loved Tauriel romantically, I would expect a glare, or something. The thing I realized watching the film for the third time is none of the elves hide their facial expressions - over half the story is told in their body language. Legolas? I only got worry and a little distate.

Also, Legolas's conversation with Bard happens before he finds Tauriel. It's pretty established that Legolas is worried, with a capital W. It seemed to go like this:

Legolas follows Bolg -> sees Gundabad mark -> realizes that Tauriel is right, and that this is much bigger than them -> is worried, and goes back to the shore of Laketown -> internally debates about what to do and talks to Bard -> makes a decision and goes looking for Tauriel -> finds her and says she's needed -> Tauriel asks why and he tells her -> daddy's messenger shows up -> Legolas plans on going back and telling what he saw -> finds out that Tauriel is banished and Thranduil isn't going to be open-minded -> says he has to follow his heart and find out more.

~*~

Tauriel and Kili's relationship is beautiful and realistic, especially in Tolkien verse. For more on them I recommend reading this thread: http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?guest=128064638&do%3Dpost_view_flat%3Bsb%3Dpost_latest_reply%3Bso%3DASC%3Bpost%3D813082=View+Flat+Mode#813082

And this one, just for a lot of Fili and Kili love: http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?guest=128066292&do%3Dpost_view_flat%3Bsb%3Dpost_latest_reply%3Bso%3DASC%3Bpost%3D811010=View+Flat+Mode#811010

along with this post: http://ledamemangociana.tumblr.com/post/105420094146/ive-got-this-a-holistic-look-at-fili-in-the


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 Post subject: Re: The final chapter, The Battle of the Five Armies.
PostPosted: December 29th, 2014, 2:50 pm 
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Basically I completely agree with Laineth, but I shall add my thoughts too :)

I initially thought that Tauriel and Kili fell too quickly for one another, and then I came across this awesome quote by John Howe, now I think it's totally understandable:

"The relationship between Tauriel and Kili, is like one of those love stories where people think they are falling in love when, in fact, they are actually falling out of love with everything else around them, and the only sympathetic face is someone who they would never choose in any other circumstance… So it’s kind of ‘almost-love-story’ with the potential to be tragically moving."

Besides JRRT is a bit of a fan of the Love at First Sight trope, Thingol and Melian, Aragorn and Arwen, Beren and Luthien, Gimli and Galadriel, the list goes on. I'm not a fan, but I can accept it comes with the territory.

But the quote really sums up my feeling about the whole 'Love Triangle' scenario too. Having seen the sub plot through to the end, I didn't get the impression that Legolas felt anything more than friendly/ sisterly affection towards her. I really think that Thranduil misinterpreted, he's been so hurt by losing his wife he can't go near the concept of love, he doesn't want his son to love anyone, because he can't stand to see him hurt in the way he was. I think he tries to scare off Tauriel particularly because she won't hide behind the walls any more. Thranduil knows the consequences of going out and fighting evil, and every time he has he's suffered huge losses with no positive outcome. He naturally would want to protect his son from that too.

I think Legolas' relationship with Tauriel, is all about world view, she can't accept what she sees as hiding from evil, whilst Thranduil is all about self defence. Legolas is initially torn, in DoS he's conflicted about which is the best course of action, he's attracted to Tauriel's rebellious streak, but has a sense of duty to his father. I think he sides with Tauriel because he realises that there's no way of avoiding a fight, the Orcs would still eventually attack Mirkwood. Legolas see's the bigger picture, but Tauriel doesn't, she's naive. She can only think of other's being hurt if she doesn't act, and can't stand the fact that Thranduil doesn't agree.

I don't think it ruins LotR at all, because Tauriel gives Legolas some motivation. Watching LotR on it's own what reason does he have for going on the quest? He learns from her that just defending Mirkwood is not enough to fight the growing shadow, that's why he can't go back to Mrikwood, that's why he joins the Fellowship. Tauriel shapes Legolas' world view but get's her fingers burnt. She learns why Thranduil thinks the way he does, because you can fight for the right cause and still be awarded with great loss and pain as a result. This is why her last scene is with Thranduil, because he understands her completely and I think we're meant to believe that she lives on despite the heartbreak because even it hurts and it's hard but it's the right thing to do.

I am all for her, but I will agree the love story, and Tauriel as a character could have been handled a little better. She suffers a little from Trinity Syndrome and she kinda gets "Fridged" so that Legolas can go on the quest. But she's not a Mary Sue, she's not just a love interest/ centre of a Love triangle and so doesn't deserve the hate she gets. Yes she's an invention, but she's as much of an invention as Kili is and the majority of the Dwarves are, or Bard's children, the Master of Laketown, and fecking Alfrid.

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 Post subject: Re: The final chapter, The Battle of the Five Armies.
PostPosted: December 29th, 2014, 9:50 pm 
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Didn't really mind Tauriel as a character, but I they should have left out that love triangle thing. Since when does Legolas have powers over gravity? Good on him for giving Thorin back Orcist though. Thorin was majestic, Thranduil was fabulous, Galadriel was awesome, and Bilbo was very amusing. The Heirs were killed off much to soon though. Fili hardly got to kick Orc arse. And wasn't really mourned.

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 Post subject: Re: The final chapter, The Battle of the Five Armies.
PostPosted: January 5th, 2015, 3:35 pm 
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In FOTR there is a brief glimmer of the same color hair as Tauriel's hair. This gave me hope for BotFA. I really liked the movie and I cried...a lot.


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 Post subject: Re: The final chapter, The Battle of the Five Armies.
PostPosted: January 6th, 2015, 11:36 am 
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Was I the only one who thought the fight at Gul'doldur(not sure how to write that) was a bit too much? Gandalf seemed to be in need of a lot of rescuing. I mean he's a Maia not a princess! Galadriel's freak out was a bit random too but I liked the way Elrond took care of her(his mother in law...lol). I kinda wish there was a last scene where we see Saruman agreeing to work with Sauron.


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 Post subject: Re: The final chapter, The Battle of the Five Armies.
PostPosted: January 6th, 2015, 7:16 pm 
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Lembas wrote:
Basically I completely agree with Laineth, but I shall add my thoughts too :)
[cut]
But she's not a Mary Sue, she's not just a love interest/ centre of a Love triangle and so doesn't deserve the hate she gets. Yes she's an invention, but she's as much of an invention as Kili is and the majority of the Dwarves are, or Bard's children, the Master of Laketown, and fecking Alfrid.


Thanks! :D I agree with this, and what you said about Thranduil, and his reasoning. I don't agree with that article about Tauriel; personally, I'll take an emotional character over a stoic killing machine any day. And M-e is filled with emotional and complex characters – that's one of the reasons I love it so much! :D

Tauriel/Kili slid into my top three M-e couples because of this film. All five times I've seen it I'm struck by the similarity in them, when Kili challenges Thorin (both times). I just keep having so many feelings – let's see if I can finally put them into words!

First, though, something to remember: elves have the ability to read the hearts and souls of others. They are not easily deceived. We see it happen all the time, a meeting of compatible souls that changes them forever. That's what happens here, with Tauriel and Kili.

Kili shouts at Tauriel to give him a knife so he can fight. Instead, Tauriel makes a retort about how she's not going to give him a weapon, and impressively kills the spider coming at him. You can see the satisfaction and passion in Tauriel's face when she turns and looks at Kili. He looks at her in amazement, awed by her skills and the fact that she just saved his life twice. Then, it was Tauriel who realized the change in the spiders; telling Legolas that more would come, her voice growing fierce as she said they were growing bolder.

Seeing Fili lose his last knife before being pushed and locked in his cell, Kili makes a flirty comment about searching his trousers, entranced by this beautiful elf that saved him (we saw him appreciate elven beauty in Rivendell). Tauriel, amusingly, only raises her eyebrows and says, “Or nothing.” Yet, she doesn't look away from Kili until she turns around, and his gaze follows her with a smile.

When Legolas confronts her about Kili's staring, Tauriel is automatically defensive. But she then, wonderingly and with a small smile, says he's quite tall for a dwarf. Immediately afterwards, Tauriel realizes what she said, shoots Legolas a glance, and awkwardly asks if he agrees, walking off before he can answer. Legolas says after her, “Taller than some, but no less ugly,” clearly perplexed by Tauriel's actions. Kili, of course, has to shift in his cell and give Legolas a glare, causing Legolas to return one of pure irritation.

We next see Tauriel lingering in the shadows, and Thranduil calling her out. Tauriel replies that she had come to give her report, bowing her head briefly in respect. Thranduil accepts this, and states that he had ordered the spider nest to be destroyed. Tauriel starts pacing with the controlled fierceness that is elvish emotion. “We cleared the forest as ordered, my lord, but more spiders keep coming up from the south. They are spawning in the ruins of Dol Guldur. If we could kill them at their source -”

Thranduil interrupts her, telling Tauriel that her only thought should be on their lands. But she can't. Still pacing, she says, “And when we drive them off, what then? Will they not spread to other lands?” Thranduil tells her that other lands are not his concern, and Tauriel just stares at him. He chides her, saying, “The fortunes of the world will rise and fall, but here in this kingdom, we will endure.”

Having got the message, Tauriel just bows her head, turns around, and starts to walk away. Thranduil stops her, saying that Legolas said she fought well earlier. Tauriel turns around, lifts her head, and smiles. Then Thranduil tells Tauriel Legolas have grown very fond of her. Tauriel's jaw drops and she has a look of disbelief. She clearly can't believe she's hearing this. “I assure you, my lord, Legolas thinks of me as no more than a captain of the guard.”

Thranduil responds that he's not so sure, and Tauriel once again gapes in disbelief. Struggling to form a response, she says, “I do not think you would allow your son to pledge himself to a lowly Silvan elf.” When Thranduil agrees he would not, Tauriel looks back down; when he says for her not to give Legolas any hope where there is none, she looks disturbed (understandably so, since Thranduil is warning her off Legolas at the same time he is saying Legolas has feelings for her).

Kili is playing with his rune stone in his cell, while Tauriel is doing a routine check of all the cell doors. With a neutral tone and look, Tauriel asks Kili what the stone is. Being Kili, he looks grim and says, “It is a talisman.” Tauriel gives him a strange look. “A powerful spell lies upon it. If any but a dwarf reads the runes on this stone, they will be forever cursed.” Kili thrusts the stone out at her. Tauriel's eyes widen, and she takes a small step back, giving him a disturbed look. Kili holds her gaze as he moves the rune stone back to himself. With a look of slight alarm, Tauriel turns to leave.

“Or not,” Kili says. Tauriel stops and looks back at him. “Depending on whether you believe that kind of thing. It’s just a token.” Kili says conversationally, smiling at the end. Tauriel is still staring at him strangely, but she slowly smiles. This encourages Kili to continue, looking down at his hand. “A rune stone. My mother gave it to me so I’d remember my promise.” He looks back at her.

Intrigued, Tauriel moves closer, “What promise?” “That I will come back to her.” Tauriel smiles and looks down, moved by Kili's admission. “She worries.” Kili tosses the stone and looks at Tauriel, smiling slightly, “She thinks I’m reckless.” Tauriel smiles back, looking at him, “Are you?” “Nah,” says Kili, smiling and waving it off. However the rune stone slips from his grip (the symbolism!), and almost falls off the edge. Tauriel stops it, picks it up, and curiously inspects it. Kili, meanwhile, is distracted by the noise coming from above. “Sounds like quite a party you’re having up there.”

Smiling in happiness, Tauriel looks at Kili and says, “It is Mereth-en-Gilith,” before stepping away and looking up, “the Feast of Starlight. All light is sacred to the Eldar, but Wood Elves love best the light of the stars.” Moved by her words, Kili says, “I always thought it is a cold light.” Tauriel turns and looks at him. “Remote and far away.” She moves closer, speaking earnestly, “It is memory, precious and pure,” and smiles. Kili looks at her with wonder.

Tauriel looks down at the rune stone in her hand, smiles, and offers Kili the rune stone, “Like your promise.” He looks at her, takes it back, and looks at her again. Tauriel turns around to look at the light shining down, before looking back at Kili, and confiding with a smile, “I have walked there sometimes.” Kili looks at her, and Tauriel looks back up, entranced by her memory, “Beyond the forest and up into the night. I have seen the world fall away and the white light forever fill the air.”

Entranced by Tauriel, Kili confides a similar experience, “I saw a fire moon once.” Tauriel turns to look at him. “It rose over the pass near Dunland, huge; red and gold it was, filled the sky.” Tauriel sits down, entranced. “We were an escort for some merchants from Ered Luin, they were trading in Silverbuck for furs. We took the Greenway south, keeping the mountain to our left, and then, this huge fire moon, right in our path.” Tauriel smiles, still entranced. “I wish I could show you...” We see Legolas, completely unnoticed, watching them impassively from the shadows.

Both Kili and Tauriel are moved by each other. Their attraction deepens as they realize how similar they are, confiding experiences and emotions. They see the other for who they truly are inside.

Then Bilbo happens and the dwarves escape. Kili's down on the ground, having been hit trying to get the lever. Another orc is coming towards him; an orc that falls with an arrow. Kili whips his head around, and sees Tauriel running onto the scene. She's saved him for a third time, and he's amazed. Tauriel kills the new orc trying to sneak up on Kili, and then one by her. The rest of the elves arrive, and Kili looks back at Tauriel once more, before trying to get the lever.

He does, and falls into his barrel with a grunt of pain; Fili crying out for him. Tauriel can't help but look, worried, as an orc sneaks up on her. She throws the orc off with a yell. Tauriel follows Legolas after the orcs and the dwarves, with the other elves. After they are gone, Legolas looks after the dwarves, not seeing the arrow sent his way. Tauriel deflects the arrow with one of her own, moving to kill the last orc by them. Legolas stops her, saying they'll keep it alive. Bolg and his forces continue after the dwarves; Legolas turns back but Tauriel looks after them fearfully.

Thranduil, Legolas, and Tauriel are interrogating the captured orc and it brags about Kili's pending death. Tauriel looks grim, but doesn't otherwise react. The orc swears at her, and she whips out her knife. “You like killing things, orc? You like death?” She lunges, “Then let me give it to you!” She stops at the last moment, at Thranduil's command. He orders her to leave, and Tauriel regains her composure. Thranduil says he doesn't care about one dead dwarf, and the interrogation continues. Legolas goes to relay Thranduil's order of closing the gates, and finds out Tauriel went out. Worried, he looks into the forest.

Tauriel stops at the edge of the lake, looking towards Laketown. Hearing something, she spins around and draws her bow. It's Legolas, with his own bow drawn. They both put their weapons away, and he moves towards her. “Tauriel, you cannot hunt thirty orcs on your own.” She looks at him knowingly, “But I'm not on my own.” Legolas smiles, “You knew I would come.” Tauriel smiles knowingly, and looks back across the river. Legolas moves closer. “The king is angry, Tauriel. For 600 years, my father has protected you,” Tauriel looks at Legolas, frowning. “favored you. You defied his orders; you betrayed his trust. Come back with me... he will forgive you.” Legolas is clearly here only to bring Tauriel back, telling her of his father's reaction to her disappearance. He certainly would not have come without permission.

Tauriel is fierce in her reply, “But I will not. If I go back, I will not forgive myself.” She looks back across the lake. “The king has never let orc-filth from our lands, yet he would let this orc-pack cross our borders and kill our prisoners.” She turns back to Legolas, who responds, “It it not our fight.” She moves closer, “It is our fight. It will not end here. With every victory, this evil will grow.” Legolas looks away. “If your father has his way, we will do nothing. We will hide within our walls, live our lives away from the light, and let darkness descend.” Legolas looks back at her. “Are we not part of this world?” Legolas looks disturbed. Fiercely, Tauriel continues, “Tell me, mellon, when did we let evil become stronger than us?” Legolas looks at her, conflicted.

Jumping to Laketown, Tauriel and Legolas arrive, killing orcs. One tries to grab Kili's foot on the bed, and Tauriel throws one of her knives and kills it. A few moments later, Tauriel turns and catches an orc by the wrist. At the same time, Kili moves behind it and kills it (with Tauriel's knife), before falling to the floor, screaming in pain. Tauriel looks at him in horror. Bolg calls for the orcs to fall back, and Legolas watches them, realizing they're retreating. He tells Tauriel to come. She looks up from Kili's side, hesitating. She looks back at Oin, who says they're losing Kili. Tauriel then catches Legolas's eyes. He tells her to come, again, and disappears out the door.

Tauriel moves to follow, but stops at the door, hearing Kili's pain. Torn in two, she looks between him and the outside, where Legolas is disappearing, chasing the orcs. She looks down, takes a deep breath, and looks back at Kili. Tauriel moves, hearing someone approaching, and sees Bofur. Her eyes widen in shock at the sight of athelas, and she grabs it from Bofur's hand, looking at it and touching it. She then holds it to her chest. When Bofur asks her what she's doing, Tauriel looks back at him, having glanced inside. “I'm going to save him.”

Legolas doesn't care for the dwarves. He clearly had decided that Tauriel was right, that they should go after the orcs. He chases after them without hesitation. But Tauriel? From the very beginning, she has been fierce about fighting back. That has been separate from her bond with Kili. When she lost her composure and chased after the orcs, both parts of her were in agreement. Now, she must choose; follow Legolas as ordered, or stay with Kili as her heart wishes. Bofur and the athelas give her her answer; she must stay to heal Kili.

The scene changes to the others putting Kili on the table, while he writhes and screams in agony. Tauriel is preparing the athelas. She tells the others to hold Kili down, moving closer with the bowl. Tauriel looks at the wound, and looks at Kili in worry, before beginning chanting, kneading the athelas, and pressing it into Kili's wound. Kili continues to thrash and scream, and Tauriel continues to chant, as strong as she can. Kili starts to calm down, and vaguely sees Tauriel, his brow furrowing. We see Tauriel through his eyes; her voice echoing, her gaze meeting his, and her body shining with light. Kili stares at her in complete wonderment.

Scene switch, and Tauriel binds Kili's leg with a cloth. Kili's head turns slightly, and Tauriel glances at him, before continuing to clean up. “Tauriel.” She turns and looks at Kili, before saying, “Lie still.” She continues to look at him, before looking back at what she is doing. “You cannot be her,” Kili continues, dazed. Tauriel pauses, and looks up. “She is far away. Sh- She is far, far away from me, and she walks in starlight in another world.” Tauriel finally turns and looks at Kili. “It was just a dream.” Tauriel looks like she has a revelation, and Kili, in his daze, entwines their fingers. “Do you think she could of loved me?” Tauriel continues to look at him, and opens her mouth to say something. The scene ends there.

(Excuse me if anything following is inaccurate, I'm going off memory and notes.)

We see Tauriel standing outside, watching the dragon's approach, with a very disturbed look. She then goes back inside, and tells everyone they need to leave. Bain says they won't, not without their father. “If you stay here, your sisters will die. Is that what your father would want?” Tauriel leads them down, and gets in the front of the boat.

Bain, Tilda, and Sigrid see Bard shooting at Smaug. Kili shouts, “He hit it! He hit the dragon!” Tauriel responds, “No.” Kili, “He did! He hit his mark! I saw!” Tauriel, “His arrows cannot pierce it's hide. I fear nothing will.” Bain remembers the black arrow, and leaves. As the others reach for him Tauriel says, “Leave him! We cannot go back.” Our next sight of Tauriel is searching the shoreline with Tilda and Sigrid.

We then go to Legolas, standing by Bard, and looking worried. He asks where they will go, and says, “News of the death of Smaug will have spread through the lands. Others will now look to the mountain. For it's wealth, it's position.” Worried, Bard asks him what he knows. “Nothing for certain. It's what I fear may come.”

Fili, Bofur, and Oin are readying a boat. Kili turns to Tauriel, who is standing on the shore. She turns to look at him as he approaches. “Tauriel.” Fili calls for him to come, that they're leaving. Tauriel looks down, before starting to walk away, “They are your people. You must go.” Kili hesitates for a moment, before moving after her, “Come with me.” Tauriel stops and faces him. “I know how I feel. I'm not afraid. You make me feel alive.”

Tauriel looks away, “I can't,” she starts to turn. “Tauriel,” Kili grabs her arm. She turns towards him slightly. “Amrâlimê.” Tauriel looks at Kili sharply, and stares. She draws back slightly, scared, “I do not know what that means.” Kili looks at her face, and smiles, “I think you do.” They move closer to each other, but Tauriel stops, stiffening, and anxiously says, “My lord Legolas,” in elvish. Kili gives Legolas a dirty look. In elvish, Legolas says, his face neutral and his voice grave, “Say goodbye to the dwarf. You are needed elsewhere.”

Tauriel looks at Kili, her expression saying, 'I have to go.' She takes a step back, turning away slightly. Kili looks at her for a moment, his face grim, before turning and walking towards his kin. Tauriel watches him. He stops suddenly, and turns back, taking her hand. Tauriel gasps, looking down as Kili closes her fingers around the rune stone, and brings their hands to his heart, “Keep it. As a promise.” Tauriel smiles. Kili reluctantly pulls away, nodding at her, and then going to his kin. Legolas merely watches them. Tauriel looks down at the rune stone, and starts sniffling, trying to keep her composure, keenly aware of Legolas's presence. Kili turns around in the boat to look back at her, before continuing to paddle.

Next, we see Tauriel questioning Legolas, “You saw something out there.” Legolas fills her in, “The orc I pursued out of Laketown, I know who he is. Bolg, spawn of Azog the Defiler. A warg pack was waiting for him at the outskirts of Esgaroth, they fled into the north. These orcs were different from the others, they bore a mark I have not seen for a long time. The mark of Gundabad.” “Gundabad?” Tauriel questions.

Before Legolas can answer an Elven messenger arrives, “My lord Legolas. I have a message from your father. You are to return to him immediately.” Legolas nods and starts moving, “Come Tauriel.” She hasn't moved. “My lord, Tauriel is banished.” Shocked, Legolas says, “Banished?” Tauriel grapples with her banishment, while looking unsurprised. Legolas continues, angry and grim, “You may tell my father if there is no place for Tauriel, there is no place for me.” Tauriel walks up behind him, trying to make him see reason, “Legolas, it is your king's command.” Legolas turns to her, “Yes, he is my king, but he does not command my heart.” He walks past her, “I ride north. Will you come with me?” “To where?” Tauriel asks. With a grim fierceness, Legolas says, “To Gundabad.” They ride away.

Legolas and Tauriel arrive at Gundabad. They climb up to the edge of a rocky hill, hiding behind the boulders. “Gundabad,” says Tauriel, “What lies beyond?” Legolas answers, “An old enemy. The ancient kingdom of Angmar. This fortress was once it's stronghold. It is where they kept their great armories, forged their weapons of war.” Tauriel notices something in a window, “A light. I saw movement.” They crouch down a little more.

After a moment, Legolas speaks, “We wait for the cover of night.” He continues, “It is a fell place Tauriel. In another age our people waged war on those lands.” He looks at her and confesses, “My mother died there.” Tauriel turns to look at him. “My father does not speak of it. There is no grave, no memory... nothing.” They continue to sit there silently, after Legolas's confession. Tauriel finally says, “If we are going to go in, we should go now.” Before they can move, bats appear and start swarming. Legolas says, “These bats are bred for one purpose.” “For what?” Tauriel asks, alarmed. “For war.” They see Bolg call out his army, and start marching. “We must warn the others!” Tauriel states. They turn around, and Legolas goes first, “We might be too late... come!”

They arrive in the midst of the battle, and find Gandalf in Dale. Legolas tells him about Bolg's army, Tauriel looks around, Gandalf realizes what Azog's plan was from the beginning, and Bilbo protests, “Thorin's up there! And Fili and Kili! They're all up there!” Tauriel realizes the danger Kili's in, and what the situation is. She looks towards Ravenhill, worried.

Thranduil comes around the corner, and Tauriel is standing in the way. Forcefully, she says, “You will go no further! You will not turn away. Not this time.” Angry, Thranduil tells her to get out of his way. Tauriel responds, “The dwarves will be slaughtered.” “Yes, they will die,” Thranduil says, tilting his head as if it's obvious. “Today, tomorrow, one year hence,” he moves closer, “a hundred years from now,” and closer, “what does it matter?” even closer, “they're mortal.”

Tauriel whips out her bow, and Thranduil moves back slightly, shocked. “You think your life is worth more than theirs,” she says with an angry forcefulness, “when there is no love in it. There's no love in you.” Thranduil glances to the side, before slashing her bow apart, furious. Shocked, it falls out of Tauriel's hands. Angrily and forcefully, Thranduil says, “What do you know of love?” He points his sword at Tauriel's throat. She looks down at it with a small gasp. “Nothing! What you feel for that dwarf, is not real.” Tauriel looks at Thranduil fearfully, gasping and crying. “You think it is love? Are you ready to die for it?” They look at each other, Thranduil furious, Tauriel heartbroken. Legolas appears out of nowhere, pushing Thranduil's sword away with Orcrist, and says angrily, “If you harm her, you will have to kill me.” Thranduil looks down, heartbroken, realizing what he's done, that he's annihilated Legolas further. Legolas turns to Tauriel, “I will go with you.” They leave for Ravenhill.

They reach the bridge, and see the bats flying overhead. Tauriel gasps and says, “No!” Legolas grabs a bat and flies off. Tauriel watches him before turning around again, and then sees Kili fighting on a ledge, “Kili,” she says fearfully. Tauriel tries to get to Kili, killing multiple orcs along the say. After the last orc is killed, she comes out onto a ledge. Tauriel turns around, screaming, “Kili!” Kili hears her and turns his head, before going back to fighting. Still looking around on the ledge, Tauriel screams, “Kili!” again. Disabling the orc, Kili screams back, “Tauriel!” She hears and gives a small gasp, and breathes, “Kili,” still looking around. Bolg sneaks up on Tauriel and they start fighting. Kili continues to fight through orcs, trying to get to where Tauriel's voice came from.

Bolg throws Tauriel into the side of the tower. He approaches her with his weapon raised. Kili arrives, and jumps on him from the ledge above. Tauriel sits up, with a long gasp, as Kili fights Bolg. Kili loses, and Bolg is raising his weapon to stab, when Tauriel jumps on his back, screaming, “No!”, trying to get his weapon out of his hand. Bolg throws Tauriel off and she rolls to the edge of the ledge. Bolg spears Kili before she can do anything, and Tauriel cries out, “No-aah” in agony. Kili looks at her, mouthing something. Tauriel is gasping and crying, her eyes never leaving his. Kili gasps his last breaths, tears falling from his eye, as they close. Tauriel cries out again, her face contorting with agony, as she reaches towards him.

Bolg throws Kili's body down, and turns towards Tauriel. She looks at him, agony turning to hatred. She fights back, and they both are thrown over the side of the ledge. Legolas sees them falling down the side, Tauriel landing on one ledge, Bolg on another. Tauriel doesn't get up, and Legolas reaches for an arrow. Realizing he's out, Legolas gets alarmed. He uses his ingenuity, and creates a bridge. Bolg comes to challenge him, and Legolas wins the fight. He goes to Tauriel's ledge, but she's gone. He looks around, “Tauriel.”

Tauriel is sitting next to Kili's body, crying. She holds the rune stone in her hand to her heart, before lowering it next to Kili's face, caressing it with her fingers. Legolas is watching her. Still crying, Tauriel slips the rune stone into Kili's hand and brings both up to her heart, lowering her head and kissing Kili's hand. She rocks in that position, crying.

Thranduil arrives on Ravenhill, looking around fearfully. He gives a sigh of relief when Legolas shows up. Legolas says he cannot go back, and Thranduil lets him leave, telling him that his mother loved him “more than anyone. More than life.” Legolas leaves, and Thranduil takes a deep breath to hold his grief in. He walks to the ledge, and sees Tauriel.

Tauriel doesn't look up, saying, “They want to bury him.” Thranduil responds, “Yes.” Tauriel looks up slightly, “If this is love, I do not want it,” she says, shaking her head. She looks at him and pleads, “Take it from me. Please.” Thranduil moves closer slightly, but does not say anything. Tauriel's eyes close, and she turns her head away, crying in agony, “Why does it hurt so much?” Thranduil moves closer, and says, “Because it was real.” Tauriel looks up at him, and realizes what he's saying. She cries and puts Kili's hand on her neck, as she leans down to kiss him, before sniffling and caressing his hand. She holds his hand to her shoulder, and rests her head on top of it.

~*~

I just... this last scene... just thinking about it is making me cry. It's so true. Anyone who has lost a loved one has experienced this. And having Thranduil's and Tauriel's arcs end like this...

(Just read this post, it says it perfectly: http://thranduilings.tumblr.com/post/105895813819/so-thranduils-portrayal-in-the-battle-of-the)

Tauriel is scared. She's scared from the very beginning, of her feelings for Kili. She's an elf, she knows her heart, she knows she loves him. Her actions prove her love, all the way through. When in Laketown, she realized that Kili loves her back. That she has not been the only one affected by their meeting. But she also knows her duty, and how things stand between their peoples. She knows that they cannot, logically, be together.

She hides her fear and insecurity behind her sense of justice. When she confronts Thranduil, she doesn't mention Kili (although he is clearly part of her motivation). Thranduil's coldness, his willingness to walk away... Tauriel cannot understand it. Furious and hurt, Thranduil attacks her hidden feelings. He scorns her emotions, derides her thoughts of love. And Tauriel, she cannot withstand it.

Because she does love Kili, and she knows it. She has known it since the Feast of Starlight. It is out in the open, there is no more pretending; no more hiding her love behind her sense of justice. So Tauriel does the only thing she can, and goes after Kili.

Legolas goes with her, because he's knows she's right. He followed Tauriel to Laketown because he thought she was right about the orc-pack. Then he saw the mark of Gundabad, and realized this was much bigger than just them, much bigger than just an orc-pack. Legolas went back to Laketown, worried and internally debating what to do. After talking to Bard, he made up his mind. There was clearly a plot afoot, and the enemy needed to be assessed.

Determined, Legolas went to find Tauriel, so they could leave. Daddy's messenger ruined that, though, by making it clear Thranduil was not going to listen. He could listen to orders and turn his back on everything and everyone, or listen to his heart and go assess the enemy. Legolas chose to follow his heart, and do what he felt was right. He goes now with Tauriel to help the dwarves, because it is the right thing to do.

Tauriel and Legolas are clearly contrasted in the subsequent events. Legolas uses his ingenuity to help sway the tide of the battle. Tauriel's entire focus is on Kili. Both of their reasoning has changed, and both of their reasoning is morally sound. Fighting for the sake of a loved one is just as moral as fighting because of a cause.

Kili hears Tauriel, and tries to get to her. I agree with Cirashala when she said, "he made the selfless decision to stay his revenge for the fallen and aid the living". (other forum, gave link in last post) Kili doesn't rush in to take what he knows will be a killing blow, to save Tauriel. He saves her life - but that specific act did not kill him. He goes down, fighting beside one of his loved ones.

Tauriel feels agony of the heart, for the first time. She's forced to watch as life fades from Kili. Tauriel finally accepted her feelings, accepted them, and she never gets the chance to tell him. So many words, forever unspoken. A future, forever gone.

Tauriel grieves, and their story ends with Tauriel and Thranduil finally understanding each other.


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 Post subject: Re: The final chapter, The Battle of the Five Armies.
PostPosted: January 6th, 2015, 7:33 pm 
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Nienna Anárion wrote:
Didn't really mind Tauriel as a character, but I they should have left out that love triangle thing. Since when does Legolas have powers over gravity? Good on him for giving Thorin back Orcist though. Thorin was majestic, Thranduil was fabulous, Galadriel was awesome, and Bilbo was very amusing. The Heirs were killed off much to soon though. Fili hardly got to kick Orc arse. And wasn't really mourned.


I still don't see a love triangle. I see two best friends. Nothing romantic ever happens, and Legolas finishes his mind-change away from Tauriel (saw mark, talked to Bard).

As for the gravity thing, well... :p Contrary to what a lot of people say, that's all Tolkien. Remember, the dude can walk on top of snow! Tolkien also says this about him:

Quote:
He was tall as a young tree, lithe, immensely strong, able swiftly to draw a great war-bow and shoot down a Nazgûl, endowed with the tremendous vitality of Elvish bodies, so hard and resistant to hurt that he went only in light shoes over rock or through snow, the most tireless of all the Fellowship.


And this about elves in general:

Quote:
They were thus capable of far greater and longer physical exertions (in pursuit of some dominant purpose of their minds) without weariness; they were not subject to diseases; they healed rapidly and completely after injuries that would have proved fatal to Men; and they could endure great physical pain for long periods.


As for Fili, I've seen a lot of people upset, but I liked it (by which I mean I sobbed). It wasn't overdone with grand acts in a typical Hollywood way. Fili was definitely mourned - Thorin's, Dwalin's, Bilbo's, and Kili's reactions were heart-breaking. For more on it, though, I would check out the two Fili links I posted before. :)


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 Post subject: Re: The final chapter, The Battle of the Five Armies.
PostPosted: January 6th, 2015, 7:39 pm 
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Elfqueen4 wrote:
Was I the only one who thought the fight at Gul'doldur(not sure how to write that) was a bit too much? Gandalf seemed to be in need of a lot of rescuing. I mean he's a Maia not a princess! Galadriel's freak out was a bit random too but I liked the way Elrond took care of her(his mother in law...lol). I kinda wish there was a last scene where we see Saruman agreeing to work with Sauron.


Yeah, I felt like Dol Guldur was unfinished. I hope more is added back in, in the EE. In the books, Gandalf gets rescued more than anyone else. He just seems to have really bad luck. I liked seeing Galadriel both use her power and be tempted. Gandalf may be a maia, but a lot of his power is restricted. Elrond was great, the entire time! :)


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 Post subject: Re: The final chapter, The Battle of the Five Armies.
PostPosted: January 7th, 2015, 8:51 pm 
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Kili hears Tauriel, and tries to get to her. I agree with Cirashala when she said, "he made the selfless decision to stay his revenge for the fallen and aid the living".


Uncanny! Cirashala is my friend, and is mentioned on virtually EVER Tolkien forum! Haha, she's an amazing writer, isn't she?

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 Post subject: Re: The final chapter, The Battle of the Five Armies.
PostPosted: January 8th, 2015, 6:19 pm 
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Quote:
Thanks! :D I agree with this, and what you said about Thranduil, and his reasoning. I don't agree with that article about Tauriel; personally, I'll take an emotional character over a stoic killing machine any day. And M-e is filled with emotional and complex characters – that's one of the reasons I love it so much! :D


I don't completely agree with the Trinty Syndrome article either, but it was written before Bot5A and taking DoS as a stand alone, Tauriel does seem to lose her priorities for Kili. This is mostly due to the break in the story but I think a strong female character shouldn't forget her abilities for emotions or vice versa. Fortunately Bot5A puts Tauriel back on track.

But I do think she suffers from it a bit because she's an original character. The established plot doesn't allow room for her to really shine. She starts out an interesting and passionate, a character we really want to root for. But she needs to be removed from the story for the sake of the plot. So she doesn't really get enough to do, because she can't be too important, and can't supercede an established character.This is what I mean when I say she got a bit "fridged", she always had to be sidelined for the sake of the plot and to let the male characters take centre stage. It was inevitable and the fact the writers did a good job with her in all other respects probably makes it all the more frustrating. I would say we've had some stellar female characters on our screens in 2014, Tauriel is not quite one of them because of this. I still love her, but dammit I'll only be happy when I see a cut scene a'la Legolas in Ithilien to know that the writers cared about her to the end, even if the plot didn't.

On a different point, your rundown was wonderful, and to me it really affirms Evangeline Lilly's excellent performance. I'm glad someone else saw it. The haters are completely ridiculous when they say she was responsible for ruining the film. She understood her character's place in the world and conveyed her arc so brilliantly. The more I read interviews from her, the more I am convinced she was the only person who could have done justice to the role. I can't wait to see what Marvel do with her next year.

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First, though, something to remember: elves have the ability to read the hearts and souls of others. They are not easily deceived. We see it happen all the time, a meeting of compatible souls that changes them forever. That's what happens here, with Tauriel and Kili.


I'd say Yes, and No. This doesn't apply to a film-only audience at all. Yet it's good that it's the Tolkien explanation can also be applicable, it's very considerate writing. But there needs to be a obvious enough explanation to allow everyone to understand why they fall for one another. Their similar outlooks are reason enough, but it's a little too subtle at times as I'll agree with some criticisms that on a first watch it's a little jarring seeing mutual attraction turn into full blown star crossed lovers, once again it's because the story stops in DoS at the wrong time for Tauriel and Kili. But I think time will be kinder, it flows much better with more watches.

For me, the scene in the cells is so charming, precisely because we see them find some common ground and come round to one another. The Tolkien explanation almost makes it too inevitable, there's no anticipation to make it interesting. It makes their differences unimportant. It's one of the things I really like about the films, a move away from the rigidly defined 'rules' laid down by Tolkien, but that they also apply nicely too for those who want to.

That's not to say I don't think there's a place for book cannon- I actually think non-book audiences really struggle to interpret the Elves sometimes. That's why people complain about Legolas' stunts and supposedly endless supply of arrows. They can't quite comprehend that that's just Elves. I like the way that PJ occasionally reminds us of their Elvishness, in the same way he reminds the audience that Hobbits are short. But I think audiences often need to see a clearer definition to really accept why a character has non-human abilities.

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 Post subject: Re: The final chapter, The Battle of the Five Armies.
PostPosted: January 8th, 2015, 8:20 pm 
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Laineth wrote:

As for the gravity thing, well... :p Contrary to what a lot of people say, that's all Tolkien. Remember, the dude can walk on top of snow! Tolkien also says this about him:

Quote:
He was tall as a young tree, lithe, immensely strong, able swiftly to draw a great war-bow and shoot down a Nazgûl, endowed with the tremendous vitality of Elvish bodies, so hard and resistant to hurt that he went only in light shoes over rock or through snow, the most tireless of all the Fellowship.


And this about elves in general:

Quote:
They were thus capable of far greater and longer physical exertions (in pursuit of some dominant purpose of their minds) without weariness; they were not subject to diseases; they healed rapidly and completely after injuries that would have proved fatal to Men; and they could endure great physical pain for long periods.



Even if Elves do those things, I don't see how it means they can defy gravity.

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 Post subject: Re: The final chapter, The Battle of the Five Armies.
PostPosted: January 8th, 2015, 11:04 pm 
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A lot of things in fantasy worlds defy science. Elves aren't meant to be realistic. :P

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 Post subject: Re: The final chapter, The Battle of the Five Armies.
PostPosted: January 8th, 2015, 11:20 pm 
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Lembas wrote:
I don't completely agree with the Trinty Syndrome article either, but it was written before Bot5A and taking DoS as a stand alone, Tauriel does seem to lose her priorities for Kili. This is mostly due to the break in the story but I think a strong female character shouldn't forget her abilities for emotions or vice versa. Fortunately Bot5A puts Tauriel back on track.

But I do think she suffers from it a bit because she's an original character. The established plot doesn't allow room for her to really shine. She starts out an interesting and passionate, a character we really want to root for. But she needs to be removed from the story for the sake of the plot. So she doesn't really get enough to do, because she can't be too important, and can't supercede an established character.This is what I mean when I say she got a bit "fridged", she always had to be sidelined for the sake of the plot and to let the male characters take centre stage. It was inevitable and the fact the writers did a good job with her in all other respects probably makes it all the more frustrating. I would say we've had some stellar female characters on our screens in 2014, Tauriel is not quite one of them because of this. I still love her, but dammit I'll only be happy when I see a cut scene a'la Legolas in Ithilien to know that the writers cared about her to the end, even if the plot didn't.

On a different point, your rundown was wonderful, and to me it really affirms Evangeline Lilly's excellent performance. I'm glad someone else saw it. The haters are completely ridiculous when they say she was responsible for ruining the film. She understood her character's place in the world and conveyed her arc so brilliantly. The more I read interviews from her, the more I am convinced she was the only person who could have done justice to the role. I can't wait to see what Marvel do with her next year.


I see what you're saying. Tauriel is not a main character, she is a side one. However, I do think that out of all the elves she had the biggest effect on the plot in the long-run. Because of her both Legolas and Thranduil change. She is the catalyst for Mirkwood.

Don't mistake me, though, I would love to see some more well-written females as main characters. And thank you! This film really made me fall in love with Tauriel, and Kiliel. I don't understand the haters at all.

Quote:
I'd say Yes, and No. This doesn't apply to a film-only audience at all. Yet it's good that it's the Tolkien explanation can also be applicable, it's very considerate writing. But there needs to be a obvious enough explanation to allow everyone to understand why they fall for one another. Their similar outlooks are reason enough, but it's a little too subtle at times as I'll agree with some criticisms that on a first watch it's a little jarring seeing mutual attraction turn into full blown star crossed lovers, once again it's because the story stops in DoS at the wrong time for Tauriel and Kili. But I think time will be kinder, it flows much better with more watches.

For me, the scene in the cells is so charming, precisely because we see them find some common ground and come round to one another. The Tolkien explanation almost makes it too inevitable, there's no anticipation to make it interesting. It makes their differences unimportant. It's one of the things I really like about the films, a move away from the rigidly defined 'rules' laid down by Tolkien, but that they also apply nicely too for those who want to.

That's not to say I don't think there's a place for book cannon- I actually think non-book audiences really struggle to interpret the Elves sometimes. That's why people complain about Legolas' stunts and supposedly endless supply of arrows. They can't quite comprehend that that's just Elves. I like the way that PJ occasionally reminds us of their Elvishness, in the same way he reminds the audience that Hobbits are short. But I think audiences often need to see a clearer definition to really accept why a character has non-human abilities.


Yeah. Film is just a medium, though, where characters really only have one or two scenes to set-up a relationship. The time just isn't there. I don't know, I always need more than one viewing/reading to do more than skim the surface. Like Thranduil - it took me a few times to catch on to his arc through his expressions.

Anyway, thanks for the response! :-D


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 Post subject: Re: The final chapter, The Battle of the Five Armies.
PostPosted: January 8th, 2015, 11:57 pm 
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EmmaSwan wrote:
Quote:
Kili hears Tauriel, and tries to get to her. I agree with Cirashala when she said, "he made the selfless decision to stay his revenge for the fallen and aid the living".


Uncanny! Cirashala is my friend, and is mentioned on virtually EVER Tolkien forum! Haha, she's an amazing writer, isn't she?


She is a great writer! :)


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 Post subject: Re: The final chapter, The Battle of the Five Armies.
PostPosted: January 9th, 2015, 9:12 am 
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Since it has been mentioned a few times, that some of you don't understand why quite a few people hate Tauriel, I'll ellaborate on why I hate her. Maybe that will help to understand both sides a little.

In a lot of ways, Tauriel comes across in a way that feeds into the whole tough archer girls trend. She is no different from Katniss Everdeen, or Gretle from Hansel and Gretle: Witch Hunters, or Marida from Brave. Tough women, who are amazing with a bow, and are more than capable of defending themselves without the help of men. Seen it, don't need another. Even in the writing of it, she exists solely for the purpose of offering fans another archer woman to admire, and have at least one woman in a very male cast. Something the film did not need at all, because the quality of it would have made up for that. Also, something that comes across very strongly, is that the script writers, etc, were probably way over their head, in stretching this tiny book into three movies, so they threw in a couple of OCs to stretch some time out--which did no favours. (Alfred, funny in DoS, really over the top and annoying in BotFA.) It's not just characters I don't like, that I feel got way too much unneeded screen time, I'm the same with ones I do like. Legolas for example. I understand why they brought him back, the company did pass through his home. But Lord of the Rings was his adventure, he didn't need The Hobbit as well. I think he should have had a cameo. Such as he was the captain of the guard, who captured the dwarves and brought them to Thranduil, then dissappeared. Only to reappear riding beside his father, as they go to war.

Since Tauriel was an original character, she needed to have a role within the plot of the story. Her whole purpose sort of monopolised that quite a bit. Because of her, the elves went to war. Not their real motives, such as Thranduil wanting the treasure that was rightfully his. Her effect on Kili changed him in a drastic way. In AUJ and very early DoS, Kili was quite an interesting character. Loyal to his brother and Thorin. Brave, but knew how to have a joke. A good fighter. Enter Tauriel. He comes across as a love sick puppy, desperate to find a way to be with Tauriel. I like to call this the Gollum Effect. Tauriel becomes his precious, that through the course of the films feeds into borderline obsession to find away to be with her, that ultimately kills him.

Her whole character is just echoes of other LotR film women. Healing a poisoned man, while someone runs off for kingsfoil. (Um, Arwen after Frodo gets stabbed?) A practised fighter, in love with a man she has no future with. (Eowyn, and her feelings towards Aragorn.) Also, her whole need to go off on her own to join in on the war and go off on her own independance thing just screams fo Arwen's choice to go back to Rivendell, instead of going to the havens. Arwen was ordered to leave Middle Earth, but she followed her heart and chose to stay. Tauriel on the other hand, was ordered to focus only on Mirkwood, but she followed her heart and ran away. There is nothing about Tauriel at all, that makes her different. If there was no love between her and Kili, she would have been nothing more than a random repetative extra, like Alfred.

And, that is why I hate her. For the fact, that she solely exists to feed into the archer women trend, to stretch the plot out, and purely for the need to have at least one woman front and center to the progression of the plot.

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 Post subject: Re: The final chapter, The Battle of the Five Armies.
PostPosted: January 9th, 2015, 2:29 pm 
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Very well put, Erin. :-)
While I admire Tauriel for her badass skills and determination (yup, girlpower and archer woman-syndrome!) I've also had a problem with her throughout the trilogy, mainly as a love interest to Kili though. But I really liked you views on her character, it makes a lot of sense.

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