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PostPosted: March 2nd, 2007, 12:23 pm 


Im sure Arwen had other hobbies too..though, I guess thats kinda tough to identify considering her role in the books wasnt too big.


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PostPosted: March 2nd, 2007, 12:31 pm 
Vala
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Right. I'm still angry at her. :)

*waits for Eä to come in and defend her beloved character*

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PostPosted: March 2nd, 2007, 1:54 pm 
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*returns from a demanding RL where she's been preoccupied, jumps into Arwen dress and draws Hadhafang to meet Aerandir's challenge*
Alright, here I am!
Finally, you give me a decent lengthy paragraph post to discuss!
*smiles teasingly*

Aerandir wrote:
Let's compare the two. Glorfindel was a Noldorin Lord of the Elder days. Arwen was a half-elven maiden from the 3rd age. Glorfindel was a great warrior. Arwen sat at home and sewed. Glorfindel died protecting the refugees of Gondolin. Arwen sat at home and sewed. Glorfindel chose to return to Middle-earth to aid the Elven Remnant against Sauron. Arwen sat at home and sewed. Glorfindel has killed a Balrog and scared the Witch-king off just because of his presence. Arwen sat at home and sewed. Glorfindel is a skilled warrior who wears cool armor. Arwen isn't a warrior and she wears dresses, not armor. Glorfindel is considered to be one of the fairer lords of the Noldor--Arwen has the likeness of Lúthien.

So Arwen gets the last point, but loses like, how many to Glorfindel? Glorfindel is way cooler. :P

First of all I was relating to the movie in my previous posts and the way Peter Jackson incorporated the character in the movie, and how Liv Tyler portrayed her. We have mourned Glorfindel in many a long thread and spilled tears as well as killed PJ several times for neglecting Glorfindel, so I believe we're past that here! ;-)

Tolkien may have given Arwen a more passive role in the books, but implicit throughout his work it is obvious how important a person and character she is. She is the main reason why Aragorn takes up the role as leader and king and recognizes his heritage. Yes, this may be based too much off the movie, but after all we are in the movie section. Moreover, Tolkien does include Arwen in the books, a minor character he wouldn't have needed to include, but he still stresses her importance in the books, as she is Aragorn's inspiration. If someone should ever doubt how Tolkien recognized the power of love he/she need only read the Tale of Beren and Lúthien knowing how it is based on Tolkien's own life. The same applies, without doubt, to the story of Aragorn and Arwen. Aragorn finds his inspiration to accomplish his task through the undying love and incredible sacrifice of Arwen.

And may I please request the exact source and quote in which it is directly stated that Arwen has been sewing for most of the Third Age!

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PostPosted: March 3rd, 2007, 10:43 am 
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Exact quote? Well....Glorfindel was doing all those things in the First age. Arwen wasn't doing anything then, so I needed something that we know she did in the Third age. She sewed. That's the only activity we know she participated in (Well...maybe there are more, but we don't need to go there). She sewed Elessar's flag for him. That's why I said she sat and sewed. :speech:

And I had been debating the point of whether or not she should have been given Glorfindel's role, which obviously ties into the books, not the movies. But if we are going for the movies, then....she still gets on my nerves, because Elrond obviously has people who would be better equipped for that sort of thing. It makes her very Mary-Sue-ish, I guess.

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PostPosted: March 3rd, 2007, 4:58 pm 


likes the fighting... yep yep


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PostPosted: March 4th, 2007, 5:58 pm 
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lol Dakara.

The same people get in arguements on my topics! lol

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PostPosted: March 4th, 2007, 6:15 pm 
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Aerandir wrote:
Exact quote? Well....Glorfindel was doing all those things in the First age. Arwen wasn't doing anything then, so I needed something that we know she did in the Third age. She sewed. That's the only activity we know she participated in (Well...maybe there are more, but we don't need to go there). She sewed Elessar's flag for him. That's why I said she sat and sewed. :speech:

And I had been debating the point of whether or not she should have been given Glorfindel's role, which obviously ties into the books, not the movies. But if we are going for the movies, then....she still gets on my nerves, because Elrond obviously has people who would be better equipped for that sort of thing. It makes her very Mary-Sue-ish, I guess.

But to state that all Arwen does in the entire Third Age is still to be very arrogant towards the character. Now we both gave our speeches on Glorfindel's and Arwen's importance to the book-plot, we can move on to the movie-plot. The question isn't whether Elrond had better people, the question is now whether Peter Jackson could afford spending more time on yet another character, just to suit the hardcore book-fans on the account of hopelessly confuse and loose the common crowd. He needed to introduce Arwen in the beginning, because the movie has to stress the love story more directly than the books need to do. Also, I can't help seeing it as a hint and a recognition of the modern woman, who fights for what she believes in (and this might be the reason why I stand up and defends Arwen, though the game is already lost on points compared to staying true to the original text or not..!)
Mary Sue-ish? Well, yeah.. but so is Aragorn... he is the perfect hero-type. He is royalty, but has lived like a ranger for a long time before he finally recognizes his fate. He has lost his parents when he was young, he has perfect fighting skills, good sense of humour, is handsome, polite etc. etc. I'm not bashing Aragorn... but simply using him as an example of why these things are necessary in a movie limited on time and a simple plot. It works different from a book! :angel:

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PostPosted: March 5th, 2007, 5:28 am 
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I wasn't trying to be arrogant--I was simply pointing out what we know Glorfindel did and comparing it to what we know Arwen did.

And I do understand that it was easier for PJ to use Arwen in the movie, but....I can always have wishful thinking, can't I? Hmm? :P

As for Aragorn being Marty-Sam-ish, well....I think Tolkien started that trend. All other Marty-Sams are somehow rip-offs of Aragorn in one way or another. :) Arwen, however, wasn't a Mary-sue until PJ had her fighting. It would have been much worse if he had had her fighting at Helm's Deep, to be sure, but it still irks me. *shrugs* It's not that big of a deal, but it sure is fun to complain about. :D

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PostPosted: March 5th, 2007, 2:11 pm 
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Perhaps you weren't trying to be arrogant, but you did a good job nonetheless! :P
Well actually, the only reason why I even bother ranting about this is because teasing you is fun!! And because I like challenging your views, since I know you can give better answers than that! ;-)

Hmm.. you really think Tolkien started the trend? Never thought of it.. I don't think he can claim full credit as heroes of legends and myths/mythologies certainly have been quite stereotyped as well!!

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PostPosted: March 6th, 2007, 6:34 am 
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I know. I'm so good at being Arrogant. :D...and humble too. :P

I think Tolkien started the lone-warrior with a glittering future, etc. There are characters from ancient stories (like Beowulf), but normally they are not lone warriors, or lacking in renown. Aragorn was not a famous person before the War of the Ring. Most characters in old stories have their deeds being sung in halls all over before their 'greatest deed' ever happens. So Aragorn is still the first instance that I can think of of a lone [highly skilled] warrior who is heir to a throne and very intimidating to the antagonist, etc.

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PostPosted: March 20th, 2007, 5:37 pm 
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I love the part where in the FoTR Frodo leaves and Sam gose with him. He says "I won't leave you Mr.Frodo" very touching

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PostPosted: March 20th, 2007, 8:15 pm 
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I think the coolest scene in the normal edition is the part in Moria with the Balrog of Morgoth. The coolest scenes in the EE is when you meet Haldir, Lothlorien, and Boromir's death scene. If you haven't scene the EE's then you are missing out on a lot of cool extras! :bounce: :-D :blink:


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PostPosted: March 21st, 2007, 10:25 pm 
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When Aragorn let Frodo go and his last talk with Boromir.

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PostPosted: March 26th, 2007, 8:57 am 
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Either hen Sam almost drowns trying to follow Frodo, or when Bilbo wants to take the Ring at Rivendell and they both start crying together.

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PostPosted: March 29th, 2007, 1:16 pm 
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I love the scene wherein Gandalf falls...

To point out Aragorn's expression is brilliant. I always believe that when i see a strong character like Aragorn in distress, it really does bring about a sad feel to that scene which is why i felt so sad when Boromir passed, which is another sad scene.

What i love is the way in which Elijah's voice echoes [oo lol i love his voice :blush: ] and i always feel sad when Frodo does for some reason despite my attachment to Elijah lol.

I also love the breaking of the fellowship scene, where Frodo stands alone with the ring with those tears [which has me in buckets everytime] and that beautiful music resounds. I also love the cinematography of Frodo grabbing Sam's hand and the line 'I'm glad you're with me Sam' is also particularly moving.

As for cool scenes, i have to say the race to Buckleberry Ferry is one which i feel obliged to mention. Although FOTR rocks in general, i just love the lighting, and the slow motion run as the Wraith pounces behind Frodo and you just here 'Frodo!' and Frodo yells 'Noo!' lol. That's awesome.
It also brings about the realistation of the danger of the quest and it really gets you excited.

I also love the fight at Amon-Hen. This is one of the best bits in the movie although i happen to love it all equally really hee. Especially when Aragorn is shouting 'Go...Run' and he moves in the way he does, slowly towards the Orcs. When we meet him at The Prancing Pony it just makes you think how far they've come and how far they've yet to go. When Frodo hides behind the Tree and he's speechless, this scene grabs my attention greatly. When you hear the words 'What's he doing?' and Merry states 'He's leaving' and Frodo looks so sad, that really makes you sad. Then it's so brilliant the way the music reflects the mood as these two little Hobbits jump out and yell 'Hey! Hey you!' 'Over here!' 'Hey!' 'Over here!' 'This way!' and you see Frodo looking happy before he realises what he has to do. This too is moving.

I love the Fellowship of the Ring. I think that it's so sad that these happy little Hobbits are the only answer and the only way in which Sauron's evil can be defeated. It makes you think about how far they really had to go and as Frodo states in ROTK 'there are some cuts that go too deep...' a quest that did inevitably take part of Frodo away and will dwell within him for the rest of his life. It's sad to realise how much he loses, but then again, you realise how much he gains. This is why i hate the fact that there is an end to such a wonderful Tale. [and the fact we'll never see Elijah in that wig again :confuzzled: ] that sucks but we love it all the same :)

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PostPosted: April 3rd, 2007, 4:09 am 
Vala
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elvishjedipirate wrote:
Either hen Sam almost drowns trying to follow Frodo, or when Bilbo wants to take the Ring at Rivendell and they both start crying together.


:blink: What's so emotional about that part? That's the scene where everyone in the theater jumped (if it was their first time watching it). I was not very touched by that, except in a startled way.

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