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PJ's environmental concern.
http://www.arwen-undomiel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14323		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Eä [ March 1st, 2007, 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:  PJ's environmental concern.
Every time I watch the movie I have this feeling that Peter Jackson (or the script writers) wanted to give a comment to environmental issues and the way we treat our planet. And also I get associations to old Communist regimes through Saruman's lines. It's like Saruman and his war industry draw a parallel to the bad sides of industrialisation and what it entails of pollution and environmental concerns.
Treebeard, on the other hand, represents Nature and when he says: "Nobody cares for the woods anymore." it's like he is speaking directly to the audience.

::Saruman communicating with Sauron through the Palantir::
Saruman: The old world will burn in the fires of industry. The forests will fall. A new order will rise. We will drive the machine of war with the sword and the spear and the iron fist of the Orc.

::Treebeard when taking Merry and Pippin to The White Wizard::
Treebeard: Side? I am on nobody's side because nobody is on my side, little orc. Nobody cares for the woods anymore.

Merry: We're not orcs. We're hobbits.

Treebeard: Hobbits? Hmm. Never heard of a hobbit before. Sounds like orc mischief to me. They come with fire, they come with axes.
Gnawing, biting, breaking, hacking, burning! Destroyers and usurpers, curse them!

::On the way to the Entmoot::
Treebeard: There was a time when Saruman would walk in my woods, but now he has a mind of metal and wheels. He no longer cares for growing things.
Author:  Ánië Súrion [ March 2nd, 2007, 12:40 am ]
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Yeah, I caught that too. And also I think they were emphasizing Tolkien's dislike for technology and the abuse of the environment.
Author:  Eä [ March 2nd, 2007, 7:48 am ]
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It's a good message, and I think it's really funny that we're being lectured by a walking tree!!
I also found it very symbolic how Saruman gets speared on one of his own machines in the additional scene. (Although, I don't like how that scene turned out at all - too far from the original text!)
Author:  Aerandir [ March 2nd, 2007, 8:41 am ]
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Ditto, ditto, and ditto. I've always felt the same way about the movie, but it really does reflect Tolkien, too. Very anti-industrial.
Author:  bow_and_arrow [ March 4th, 2007, 3:58 am ]
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I think that it was great how PJ managed to fit those feelings into the movie :-D
Author:  Aerandir [ March 4th, 2007, 10:58 am ]
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Yeah--that's one of the things he did a good job with.
Author:  Eä [ March 4th, 2007, 11:16 am ]
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A nice message indeed... I just found it quite ackward somehow... especially when Saruman speaks about 'the fires of industry', 'the machine of war' and 'the iron fist of the orc'.. can't help thinking of old socialism/communism... which is rather inappropriate in a fantasy movie...
Author:  Aerandir [ March 4th, 2007, 11:24 am ]
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I never thought of communism--I just thought of the annoyance/coolness of modern industry. Specifically, the Industrial Revolution, which I tend to dislike. Having computers and stuff is nice, but I would really rather not have damaged the earth the way it all has. However, we don't need to discuss that here.

Has anyone else connected Smaug and Smog? I don't know if Tolkien meant for there to be a connection there, but I've always associated the two.
Author:  Frodos-Guide [ March 29th, 2007, 1:23 pm ]
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Brilliant point Ea!

I think that Tolkien was refering to the world of war [obviously] and the devastating consequences it has upon our world. This is all very true. The quotes back up what you're saying brilliantly. I totally agree that the idea of war dominates the minds of many and it ends up corrupting them in itself. It's as though they desire only power by the end and the love they once possessed for the beauty of nature, has been replaced for the love of man-made things and power.
Author:  Slickman_G [ April 1st, 2007, 6:56 am ]
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I agree, PJ brings environmental issues caused by industrialisation into the movies very well, I am not sure wether he did is purposefully or not, because he does not say anything about it in the 6 hours of doumentaries of the making of the films, but I'm sure it was subconcious if nothing else. Also, I think Treebeard is like a spokeperson for nature:
Quote:
Side? I am on nobody's side because nobody is on my side, little orc. Nobody cares for the woods anymore.
He brings to notice in his speeking how old nature is, and it is being destroyed by 'hasty' humans, ruining millions of years of evolution and slow development., in the space of a short period.
Author:  Eä [ April 3rd, 2007, 4:35 pm ]
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Aerandir wrote:
Has anyone else connected Smaug and Smog? I don't know if Tolkien meant for there to be a connection there, but I've always associated the two.

No, personally I didn't see a connection between the two... although I'm not denying the fact that there could be a connection! :-)

Thank you Frodos-Guide and Slickman_G.
I don't know whether PJ is an environmentalist. Tolkien definately was, but it does shine through very clearly in the movie too. I haven't watched the commentaries on the DVD so i don't know if it is mentioned.
Author:  Slickman_G [ April 3rd, 2007, 4:45 pm ]
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Come to think of it, so much research went into the films that I'm pretty sure PJ was purposeful in the way environmental issues were tackled in the films.
Author:  Princess of Ithilien [ April 3rd, 2007, 8:14 pm ]
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But it's amazing how no one's done anything about it. Everyone says 'yes, it is sad that people cut down trees,' then goes and sits on wooden furniture, etc.

These 'fires of industry.' I feel hypocritical whenever Saruman says that, because, hey, I feel bad that life is so...unnatural. That I would rather watch a movie about talking trees and people who hate cutting down trees than actually going outside and just enjoy sitting under a tree.
Author:  Lasbelingur [ April 3rd, 2007, 8:36 pm ]
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I never thought of Treebeard/Saruman like that. I personally wish humans didn't make all the electricity, or the cars ( I'd much rather ride a horse or walk), or any thing else. Exept the computer...wait a computer needs electricity, I guess I'd have to live whithuot it. Anyways that is cool how everyone (excluding me) noticed that.
Author:  Risestel [ April 7th, 2007, 11:02 am ]
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Brilliant!
I have kind of noticed, but I never payed that much attention to it.
Author:  Imlosiel the Lost [ April 22nd, 2007, 8:48 am ]
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Slickman_G wrote:
Come to think of it, so much research went into the films that I'm pretty sure PJ was purposeful in the way environmental issues were tackled in the films.


I'm sure it was a purposely placed meaning. I know it's present in the books and other writings of Tolkien, but I think PJ definately made a point to put that message across. The image that stands out most in my mind is when Frodo looks into Galadriel's mirror and sees the Shire as he remembered it, green and cheerful, but then the image changes to what it will become if he should fail. This potential future he sees is filled with smokestacks, smog and darkness, images that are usually associated with the negative aspects of industrialization.
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