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 Post subject: What did they DO to Faramir???
PostPosted: July 14th, 2006, 2:00 pm 
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I wasn't sure whether to post this in The Two Towers thread or the Return of the King thread, because it passes over both, but w/e.

This is an actual essay, turned in by an 8th grader to her English teacher.


~~~~~~~~~~~

While I know that one must allow for some slight dissimilarities between books and their movies, the Lord of the Rings movies did one character a serious discourtesy. Faramir, captain of Gondor's character radically changed in the transition and certain fans, including myself, disapprove. In the volume (not book, too many people don't know the difference) of The Two Towers, Faramir shows his quality as a noble, wise, just, and trustworthy person. In the movie of the same name, he acts swiftly and shows skepticism in Frodo's claim.

In the book written by John Ronald Reuel Tolkien, Faramir speaks of Isildur's Bane (the One Ring) before he knows the two hobbits carry it. He says, "I would not take this thing, if it lay by the highway." However, in the film, he says no such thing. Faramir doesn't even say anything that might have similar meaning. He actually attempts to send them to his father, along with the ring.

The movies even go so far as to show a supposed time warp. The storyline shows Frodo leaving Henneth Annun and Faramir heading to Osgiliath. Frodo then reaches Minas Morgul as part of Mordor's armies march out on their way to attack Osgiliath. This segment is portrayed, in the movie, as Faramir forcing Frodo and Sam with him. Osgiliath is attacked by Orcs and a few Nazgul. As the battle rages, Faramir gives the broken Fellowship leave to escape the city. They do so, and reach Minas Morgul, where an army matching the one that attacked Osgiliath leaves... on its way to Osgiliath! How is it possible for Frodo to see the army on its way to an attack when the attack has already commenced?

In the books, Faramir never even brings the two hobbits to Osgiliath but sets them free from Henneth Annun. The twisted version of Faramir in the movies doesn't simply take them to Osgiliath, he proceeds further. He gives the command, "Take them to my father. Tell him, 'Faramir sends a mighty gift.'" Ironically, had the movie plotline followed up on this and the Nazgul not arrived, frodo and Sam would have been taken to Denethor. Denethor would have taken the One Ring and the world would have fallen.

Faramir's actual interrogation of Frodo was cautious, unhasty, and seeking truth in order to deem the right course. In the portrayed interrogation, Faramir is a skeptic of almost all the halflings say. He also jumps to conclusions and disregards their objections.

Movie Faramir's reasons for letting the halflings out of Osgiliath are rather irrational. He disregards their original arguments, but as soon as it is obvious Frodo can little resist the Nazgul and the Ring, the halflings can take the Ring and go? What kind of sense does that make? Movie Faramir's concerns lie closer to good intentions. Once he learns the truth about the Hobbit's quest, he in essence bids them godspeed and gives them leave to continue.

Again, I believe Faramir's changes inexcusable. Though certain things must always be altered, this just went too far.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

I just think this needs to be up for discussion.


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PostPosted: July 14th, 2006, 7:18 pm 
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I disagree. I totally disagree. While there may be technical errors, I believe that the alteration of Faramir was a necessary part of the movie plot. It helps to develop the fact that Faramir desperately wants the approval of his father, and it makes you love him all the more for letting Frodo and Sam go, EVEN when he knows it means more displeasure and rampant favoritism from his father. You can tell he's battling within himself - rather to do the right thing and let them go, or finally give his father something to love him for.
I realize that it does compromise his character, but I think PJ made the right decision.

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PostPosted: July 17th, 2006, 5:08 pm 
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yeah, but what about the time warp thing?

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PostPosted: July 17th, 2006, 6:35 pm 


I dissagree with the essay They had some things differnt but it still followed the book just fine he wanted his fathers love so it had to go with the plot.


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 Post subject: Re: What did they DO to Faramir???
PostPosted: July 24th, 2006, 9:08 am 
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Elvishmouse wrote:
In the book written by John Ronald Reuel Tolkien, Faramir speaks of Isildur's Bane (the One Ring) before he knows the two hobbits carry it. He says, "I would not take this thing, if it lay by the highway." However, in the film, he says no such thing. Faramir doesn't even say anything that might have similar meaning. He actually attempts to send them to his father, along with the ring.

I do miss this part. I understand where PJ was coming from, needing "growth" for Faramir, but I think it could have been shown other ways. I miss Faramir's speech on why he loves Minas Tirith: not for her sword, but for her beauty.
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The movies even go so far as to show a supposed time warp. The storyline shows Frodo leaving Henneth Annun and Faramir heading to Osgiliath. Frodo then reaches Minas Morgul as part of Mordor's armies march out on their way to attack Osgiliath. How is it possible for Frodo to see the army on its way to an attack when the attack has already commenced?

It is entirely plausible for an army to attack Osgiliath twice. After all, they want to take all of Osgiliath, so once Faramir has beaten back their army some, they want to retake it.
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Again, I believe Faramir's changes inexcusable. Though certain things must always be altered, this just went too far.

I wouldn't say inexcusable, just slightly out of proportion. The changes can make sense, and what else can they do to fill up time between Ithilien and Shelob?

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PostPosted: July 30th, 2006, 10:38 pm 
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I completely disagree. As many said the change was almost necessary. PJ needed to show that Faramir wanted to be loved by his father, and was doing what he could to make it so. Though it did not portray Faramir's character correctly it did show that he was human and craved his father's attention like any other child would. Also, I think it would not have made sense for Faramir not to be tempted by the Ring. Everyone is, so why should Faramir by any different.

Concerning the time warp, I really don't remember that part. I don't understand how that wouldn't work. The Nazgul weren't in two places at once, they were in one place and then flew to the other place. Simple. Or am I missing something?

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PostPosted: August 24th, 2006, 8:54 am 
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I tend not to get too upset about the changes in the movie, i mean, you can never beat the book, but PJ did an excellent job with keeping it as close as possible! Yes, Faramir wasn't as he was in the book, but neither was Arwen, or many other characters. And to think also -the movie wasn't just made for Tolkiens fans, it was for the whole world. Personally, I don't think it's all that bad. It's good enough for the movie and it might appeal to the uneducated audience more than it does to us die-hard fans.. but that's life!

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PostPosted: August 27th, 2006, 7:24 pm 
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mmkay. I just thought it should be up for discussion. No, I didn't write it, and personally I don't have an opinion, but w/e.

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PostPosted: August 30th, 2006, 5:38 pm 
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I really disagree with this essay. I think that Faramir's changes in the movie were fine. They've altered many things in the movies, and this isn't the first time they've changed characters slightly. When I saw the movies, I expected them to be different from the books, and of course, they were. The books are always better, and I think that whoever wrote the essay really couldn't see that it was just the movie version. I don't like it when characters are alters so much, but really, his alterations (sp?) suited me fine.

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Last edited by White Lady of Rivendell on September 1st, 2006, 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: August 31st, 2006, 11:22 am 
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I think the film tried to delve into another part of Faramir's character that may have not been so obvious in the book. I think the film-writers were just adding some insight into what Faramir may have felt about the ring and his father. If they had portrayed him as he is in the book, he would have appeared unrealistic on screen.

I'm not saying that Faramir's character is unrealistic in the book...but he is more of a minor character, and therefore more 'flat' as opposed to a major character like Frodo or Aragorn who are more 'round'. I think the changes were made to give more life to a more minor character.

Film is a very different medium than a book. Faramir's character is fine for the book, and it is how Tolkien made him...but to translate that character to film would need some changes.


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PostPosted: September 1st, 2006, 3:41 pm 
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Well, think. You're trying to establish how powerful the ring is. It's easier to do in a book, but in a movie, you really want to emphasize it. It can take a noble man like Boromir or Isildur and corrupt him. Then, to have Faramir have it in his hands and give it up would strip away all of that.

Anyway, I love Faramir in both books and movies.

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PostPosted: October 24th, 2006, 4:46 am 
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I know I'm going to be killed for this but I prefered the movie Faramier. He became much more of a major character and thought it was a good piece of character development by PJ. I was so touched when Denethor sends Faramier out to ride gainst Osgiliath in the RotK

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PostPosted: October 26th, 2006, 7:12 pm 
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nooooooooooo, i can't believe i'm hearing this! the essay's right - the film does do faramir a serious discourtesy. tolkien created the character he wanted and PJ had no right to change that - i don't think book faramir would have appeared at all unrealistic on screen. and having faramir not desire the ring does not undermine its power in the slightest - it simply shows that some people are not as easily tempted as others, and wisdom and clarity can survive evil times.

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PostPosted: October 3rd, 2010, 3:50 pm 
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I had to resurrect this after having a marathon the other week and discussing this with my friend. I remember watching the EE behind the scenes stuff and them talking about this specific thing:

Princess of Ithilien wrote:
Well, think. You're trying to establish how powerful the ring is. It's easier to do in a book, but in a movie, you really want to emphasize it. It can take a noble man like Boromir or Isildur and corrupt him. Then, to have Faramir have it in his hands and give it up would strip away all of that.


I disagree. At the very end of FotR, the Ring called to Aragorn. Immediately after we see its power over Boromir, we see it tempt another. And Aragorn resists it. Pretty easily, I might add. In a way, Frodo even offered it to him, which should make his taking it all the more simple. In RotK, Sam has the Ring. He even uses the Ring. But when Frodo asks for it back, he gives it back. So we have this very powerful object that corrupts, but it doesn't corrupt everyone.

So what are we doing by having Faramir be taken by it? Aragorn immediately becomes more noble and heroic. Frodo and Sam are special. It's showing how only the special and chosen can resist? Or that ordinary men cannot resist it? I think that goes against the spirit of the story. Even the unlikeliest person can change something. Faramir is a noble man. You don't have to be a king or a descendant of Isildur or a hobbit to resist the temptation, you just have to have the willpower and the character to do so.

I feel like they could have shown the power of the Ring still. In the scene where he comes to see them, "...the ring of power within my grasp..", he shows the call the Ring has on him. Congratulations, you have shown what it can do. Now show how one can be stronger than temptation and have him let them go. "Not if Minas Tirith were falling in ruin and I alone could save her."

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PostPosted: November 9th, 2010, 2:56 pm 
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Quote:
Well, think. You're trying to establish how powerful the ring is. It's easier to do in a book, but in a movie, you really want to emphasize it. It can take a noble man like Boromir or Isildur and corrupt him. Then, to have Faramir have it in his hands and give it up would strip away all of that.


I have to disagree; I think that they showed the Ring's power well enough in that having it in your possession and using it would eventually corrupt you, as we see in Frodo and Gollum, and such that even Gandalf feared to take it, whether you meant to use it for good or ill.

So, in allowing Aragorn to resist taking the Ring and having Faramir succomb, you're not showing the Ring's power as much as you're implying that Faramir is the weaker of the two.

I almost think they were afraid to make Faramir as noble and heroic as Aragorn; maybe they thought that viewers wouldn't accept Aragorn as king 'over' Faramir unless they also thought that Aragorn's character was 'over' Faramir's.

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PostPosted: November 18th, 2010, 6:36 pm 
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Elvishmouse wrote:
yeah, but what about the time warp thing?


If the 8th grader was thinking what I'm thinking, she's/he's wrong. PJ has said in the EE bonus features that he (and Philippa and Fran) had to work out a timeline of events. When you read the books, it's almost as if you read one group's adventure, and then you read the other group's. That's not how it's meant to be viewed. Say, for example, you're reading Return of the King. Books 5 and 6 contain information about events that are happening simultaneously, not independently. It's not like book 5 ends, then the stuff in book 6 starts. The filmmakers had to figure out a timeline that helped to tie everything in together and make more sense to the audience.

I don't mind the movie-Faramir, but maybe that's because I'm not a big fan of the books.

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