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Just some random ramblings about death.

1: What do you think would have happened if Gandalf really died and didn't come back?
2: What do you think would have happened if Frodo had died after being stung be Shelob?
3: Do you think there would have been a lot of difference if Saruman had been killed earlier on in ROTK?

1: I think that Middle Earth would have been in big trouble if Gandalf hadn't come back.
2: I think the quest might have been made void, since Sam wasn't meant to be the ring-bearer.
3: Who knows. He didn't really do much after he was defeated.

What about you? What are your opinions?

1) Though Gandalf did seem to carry the story, he was not the only driving force. Frodo would still have made it to Mordor with Sam, for Gandalf did not play any part in that.

No, Gandalf did not stand beside Frodo urging him on. But the events that Gandalf put into place made it possible for Frodo to cross Mordor. Without Gandalf's return, there most likely wouldn't have been an assault on the Black Gate, therefore Frodo and Sam would've had to cross a Gorgoroth swarming with orcs. That would've been a lot more difficult than they already had it.

1. Middle-earth would pretty much be doomed because Gandalf played such a dominant and important role in the war against Sauron :sorcerer:

2. I think Sam could have definitally made it to Mount Doom! His great love for the shire and his friends would have kept him going till the end

3. I don't think it would have made a big difference, it certainly didn't in the movie :no:

Author:	Valinor Sunset [ August 1st, 2006, 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:	About death
Just some random ramblings about death. 1: What do you think would have happened if Gandalf really died and didn't come back? 2: What do you think would have happened if Frodo had died after being stung be Shelob? 3: Do you think there would have been a lot of difference if Saruman had been killed earlier on in ROTK? 1: I think that Middle Earth would have been in big trouble if Gandalf hadn't come back. 2: I think the quest might have been made void, since Sam wasn't meant to be the ring-bearer. 3: Who knows. He didn't really do much after he was defeated. What about you? What are your opinions?

Author:	pip&leggyluvr [ August 1st, 2006, 10:29 pm ]
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1. Middle Earth wouldn't be here right now...... 2. Sam would've gotten the ring to Mt. Doom.........he's sam. he coulda done it. 3. no idea....

Author:	Rosswen [ August 2nd, 2006, 4:03 pm ]
Post subject:
1. Middle-earth would pretty much be doomed because Gandalf played such a dominant and important role in the war against Sauron 2. I think Sam could have definitally made it to Mount Doom! His great love for the shire and his friends would have kept him going till the end 3. I don't think it would have made a big difference, it certainly didn't in the movie

Author:	Pandora [ August 2nd, 2006, 11:11 pm ]
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1: What do you think would have happened if Gandalf really died and didn't come back? -I think the ring still would have been destroyed, but it would have been quite a task since the siege on the black gate might have been delayed and then Frodo and Sam would have gone through the Orcs.... though that is an if-y theory... 2: What do you think would have happened if Frodo had died after being stung be Shelob? -If Frodo did die I do believe Sam could have made it to Mt.Doom, but I think he too may have felt the weight of the ring same as Frodo and would have had a difficult time ridding him of such a burden... 3: Do you think there would have been a lot of difference if Saruman had been killed earlier on in ROTK? -Depends what you would say is earlier... yes and no... if he was killed before the attack of Helm's Deep it would have made a huge difference to the events that were to come...

Author:	Gilraen Ringeril [ August 2nd, 2006, 11:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: About death
Leonder wrote: Just some random ramblings about death. 1: What do you think would have happened if Gandalf really died and didn't come back? 2: What do you think would have happened if Frodo had died after being stung be Shelob? 3: Do you think there would have been a lot of difference if Saruman had been killed earlier on in ROTK? 1: I think that Middle Earth would have been in big trouble if Gandalf hadn't come back. 2: I think the quest might have been made void, since Sam wasn't meant to be the ring-bearer. 3: Who knows. He didn't really do much after he was defeated. What about you? What are your opinions? 1. I think that Frodo would have still been able to destroy the ring even if Gandalf had died, because since Minas Tirith would probably fall, Sauron would be focused over there, and then Aragorn wouldn't need to attack the Black Gate. Therefore Frodo could go and destory the ring, and it would all be happy again LOL I don't know if that would've REALLY happened, but you never know! 2. I'm not sure if Sam could've made it to Mount Doom alone or not He would obviously be heart broken, and what if Gollum attacked him and he was alone? 3. I don't think if Sauruman died earlier it would've made much difference The Shire might not have been in such a bad state though...

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Author:	Nurrantiel Mashiara [ August 5th, 2006, 12:37 pm ]
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1) Everything would've fallen to pieces if Gandalf died. Aragorn and Co. wouldn't have known that Merry and Pippin were safe, so they would continue searching for them. They could've become prisoners of Saruman or attacked by large Uruk-Hai parties sent out of Isengard. Next, they wouldn't have had much luck at Edoras. They probably would've gone -on foot- there to explain that the horses ran away, but Theoden would stay under the influence of Saruman, so who knows what he would do to them. They wouldn't be able to rid Theoden of Wormtounge and Saruman- Aragorn is powerful, but not that powerful. So the Rohirrim would never have turned up at Helm's Deep, and most likely would've been wiped out by the Uruk-Hai. Aragorn may have found Eomer again, but not very likely. After all this, the Rohirrim wouldn't be able to show up at Pelennor. Eomer and his Eored may have come, but it wouln't have helped much. Aragorn and Co. wouldn't have traveled to Dunharrow, and most likely wouldn't have enlisted the help of the dead under the mountain. Minas Tirith would fall. Once Minas Tirith is destroyed, Sauron might take the time to look inside Mordor's borders and see Frodo and Sam. They might still have a small chance of destroying the ring, but it would be very hard. Not to mention they would have to get past all the orcs because the Black Gate wouldn't be assaulted. 2) Yes, Frodo was meant to be the ringbearer, but I think Sam could've made it. He would've been heartbroken, but I think it very likely that he would go on. He has a very strong will. However, I don't think he would survive-or at least it'd be very chancy. It's also very possible that Gollum would attack him and be killed. 3) If Saruman had been killed earlier...hm. I don't think there would've been a huge difference. I think the only major thing would be less disaster in the Shire. There would still be problems, but they would be more minor things, and less integrated into the lifestyle by the time the travellers got back home.

Author:	Larael [ August 5th, 2006, 11:25 pm ]
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1) Though Gandalf did seem to carry the story, he was not the only driving force. Frodo would still have made it to Mordor with Sam, for Gandalf did not play any part in that. Really Gandalf was more of a by-stander, as Aragorn [after accepting his rightful place as king] began to lead a lot more than Gandalf. No, I do not think all would have been lost. 2) Sam, being the loyal person that he is, would have taken the Ring himself for Frodo's sake. 3) I don't think there would have been a huge difference at all. Just a lack of wizards in the world...

Author:	Nurrantiel Mashiara [ August 6th, 2006, 10:58 am ]
Post subject:
Larael wrote: 1) Though Gandalf did seem to carry the story, he was not the only driving force. Frodo would still have made it to Mordor with Sam, for Gandalf did not play any part in that. No, Gandalf did not stand beside Frodo urging him on. But the events that Gandalf put into place made it possible for Frodo to cross Mordor. Without Gandalf's return, there most likely wouldn't have been an assault on the Black Gate, therefore Frodo and Sam would've had to cross a Gorgoroth swarming with orcs. That would've been a lot more difficult than they already had it.

Author:	Faithless [ August 6th, 2006, 12:40 pm ]
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1. Sauron would be ruling middle-earth 2. Sam would have destroyed the ring for his love of the shire. 3. I think it made a huge differnece in the movie maybe the book but i havnt read the book in a couple months but Saruman tells gandalf about Sauron pressing an attck which was important i think.

Author:	Galadhrim_arrow [ August 25th, 2006, 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:
Now I don't know about 1 and 3, but if Frodo died, Sam would have died protecting him to the end. He was ready to die. The last part of the Two Towers book he really did make up his mind to fight the orcs that came from Cirith-Ungol. Re-read that part and I think you'll understand.

Author:	Larael [ August 25th, 2006, 10:37 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: No, Gandalf did not stand beside Frodo urging him on. But the events that Gandalf put into place made it possible for Frodo to cross Mordor. Without Gandalf's return, there most likely wouldn't have been an assault on the Black Gate, therefore Frodo and Sam would've had to cross a Gorgoroth swarming with orcs. That would've been a lot more difficult than they already had it. That is very true, and I forgot to take that into consideration when I posted. Although it was ultimately Frodo's journey and task, part of it was also Gandalf's. That was the whole reason he was sent back by the Valar. It was his job to make sure Frodo made it to Mordor safely, and to see the Ring destroyed. I still think though that Frodo would have made it even without Gandalf's help. I thank you again though for pointing that out.

Author:	Galadhrim_arrow [ August 29th, 2006, 1:07 am ]
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Rosswen wrote: 1. Middle-earth would pretty much be doomed because Gandalf played such a dominant and important role in the war against Sauron 2. I think Sam could have definitally made it to Mount Doom! His great love for the shire and his friends would have kept him going till the end 3. I don't think it would have made a big difference, it certainly didn't in the movie Now I hope I am not sounding snotty, but Sam's love for Frodo was greater than that of the Shire.

Author:	Starlight [ August 29th, 2006, 10:26 am ]
Post subject:
1. I think that Gandalf was a really important character. Afterall, it was his idea to draw Sauron's armies out of Mordor so that Frodo and Sam'a way would be clear. Other things too, certain battles that couldn't have been won without him. He needs to be there. 2. First of all, I would have cried my eyes out for days and probably cursed Tolkien (Ok, I could never do that last one. But you get the picture.). Second, I think that if Sam really wanted to, he could make it on his own. But, Tolkien once said himself that Frodo was the main character, meant to be the Ringbearer, and that the whole thing would have been void without Frodo. So maybe Sam would not have made it there. Who knows? I'm glad it didn't happen that way. 3. Well, in the movies it wouldn't have made much of a difference, but in the books it would have made a huge difference. If Saruman had bkilled earlier, he wouldn't have had a chance to destory the Shire, and so they wouldn't have had to rebuild it or anything. I was kind of sad that that was left out of the movie when i read it, because it shows how Sam uses the gift that Galadriel gave him. (I was sad that that wasn't in the movie either, because I thought that was so cool and I loved reading about the different gifts she gave them all. Still, I accept the fact that they couldn't fit in everything and I think the movies were outstanding anyway. )

Author:	White Lady of Rivendell [ August 31st, 2006, 10:26 am ]
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1. Middle Earth wouild be doomed 2. Sam would complete the quest in all his awesomeness 3. I dunno

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Author:	Sola Farrell [ September 4th, 2006, 5:09 am ]
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1: Then Mordor would have swarmed over Gondor and then Rohan, followed by the rest of middle earth, for Gandalf found Eomer and his riders, also took the Palintir of Pippin and told him to light the beacons. 2: Sam would have destroyed the ring, he had enough guts and courage to. 3: Yes, Mordor would have defeated Gondor because then the palintir wouldn't have been found and they wouldn't have heard of the attack.