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PostPosted: October 25th, 2006, 9:58 pm 
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I don't think we're really observing the actual lines.

As manwathiel noted...

manwathiel wrote:
Gimli: Horse-master. I wish I could muster a legion of Dwarves, fully armed and filthy.

Legolas: Your kinsmen may have no need to ride to war. I fear war already marches on their own lands.


Legolas is says that Gimli's kinsmen have no need to ride to ride to war. And that war already marched on their (Gimli's kinsmen).

Legolas is basically saying that war had already occured in Moria, and that Gimli's kinsmen had gone to war and the Moria orcs are infested in their land.

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PostPosted: October 25th, 2006, 10:09 pm 
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I disagree kitoky. About this time Goblins were attaking th elonely mountain and Dale. Legolas a;ready knew Moria was lost, and that no help could bring it back to its former glory but being a prince of mirkwood, he would have probably heard about orcs gathering and have assumed their purpose. This is said in ROTK. Gimli has already accepted that Moria is lost and that he would have liked some of his kin to help him fight sauron in Mordor, nut legolas says that war comes to them and there is no need to seek it out.

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PostPosted: October 25th, 2006, 10:57 pm 
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I don't quite understand what any of you are saying.....

This was in the movie, yes?

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PostPosted: October 25th, 2006, 11:04 pm 
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The lines were in the movie yes, but the actual subject matter of the lines was in the books and not included directly in the movies. Try using the encyclopedia of arda and look for war in dale third age and it should come up with a result. This part of the war of the ring is the one reffered to in those lines form legolas and Gimli. I cant remember which book that it was in, but thats what they are talking about.

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PostPosted: October 26th, 2006, 5:57 am 
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Well, to be more specific than any of you so far, that statement refers to the wars occurring ath that time in Lorien, Mirkwod(nobody's mentioned that yet) and Erebor/Dale/The Lonely Mountain.

The dwarves had their hands way too full to try and recapture Moria at the time.

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 Post subject: yeh
PostPosted: October 26th, 2006, 6:32 am 
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Ii was majorly The lonely mountain /dale that legolas meant.Also mirkwood poss to a leser extent, but he said on their lands, reffering to the dwarves. Thus meaning Dale and the lonely mountain.
Lorien was attacked,But it wasnt close to the lonely mountain or that sort of area lol. 8) :closedeyes:

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PostPosted: October 26th, 2006, 6:47 am 
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To be more specific again, he said "I fear our kinsmen have no need to ride to war..." He's not just referring to the dwarves, but also to the Elves of Mirkwood.

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PostPosted: October 26th, 2006, 6:56 am 
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Weel with the fall of one would herald the other. If the goblins occupied th elonely mountain. They would prove difficult to dislodge and could overrun mirkwood with constant attacks lol.

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PostPosted: October 26th, 2006, 7:02 am 
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It's not a matter of "after the fall of Erebor" - if you look in the books, you'll see that Mirkwood itself was undergoing a huge attack from Dol Guldur, as was Lorien. Those two finally drove the orcs back and destroyed Dol Guldur, and it mentions that afterwards Thranduil and Celeborn divided the lower half of Mirkwood, which had previously been controlled by Dol Guldur, between themselves. So he would be worrying for Mirkwood as much as for Erebor, and probably more.

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PostPosted: October 26th, 2006, 7:20 am 
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Thing is is that the elves were fighting in the wood, a theatre of ops they have had years of practice in border defence wheras the dwarves were fighting a pitched battle before they retreated into the mountain, which was never really their specialty therefore the dwarves were more susceptable to a defeat than the eldar lol.
He ws probably also worrying for Mirkwood but tactically, Erebor was the one closest to falling lol.
Thats what I think anyway.

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PostPosted: October 26th, 2006, 7:32 am 
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I disagree. Why wouldn't the Dwarves be good at fighting pitched battles? They're the strongest and most enduring of all the races of Arda (except for Ents and Trolls and similar creatures like that), and they made the best weapons and armor. They stink at fighting in the forest, but pitched-battle or on a mountain is where they'd be the best. After all, most of the dwarven halls were in mountains.

Yeah, the Elves excelled where they were, but so did the Dwarves. They both had huge armies led against them, but actually the Dwarves also had the men of Dale fighting with them, so they had allies, while the Dwarves didn't. Besides, Legolas is basing his comment on suppositions and old facts about enemy movements, since he had no way of getting information about Mirkwood and Erebor, so why would he be more concerned about a strong Dwarven kingdom right next to a strong human kingdom than his own home country, with no allies within a several days march?

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PostPosted: October 26th, 2006, 7:40 am 
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No. Dwarves strengths are battle in the mines as they lack fast units to guard flanks therefore they are weak in the open plains.The Eldar were also very strong in numbers and also had the trees to protect them and also they as I said were accustomed to battle in th ewoods and are not slightly rusty. The last time that teh dwarves had a plains battle was th ebattle of five armies. Which was back a bit lol.

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PostPosted: October 26th, 2006, 12:17 pm 
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Who says dwarves are slow? That's just something that is commonly supposed, but never actually stated. As I recall, Dain's dwarves from the Iron Hills made an extremely fast journey to reach the Lonely Mountain. Gimli kept up with Legolas and Aragorn for 45 leagues, all three of them on foot, which was considered awe-inspiring even for an elf.

I don't think the dwarves were slow. But whether or not they are actually doesn't make much of a difference, because their battle was fought in front of the Lonely Mountain and Dale. They were defending, so they were on ground of their choosing, with scouts where they wanted them, etc. They wouldn't even need speed - they had defenses, and attacking wouldn't necessarily be beneficial because they'd have to leave their defences (which would be minor, but be defenses nonetheless).

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PostPosted: October 26th, 2006, 12:24 pm 
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Dwarves are enduring, but not especially fast, That is why gimli was able to keep up and Dain make such a good distance.
A great example for dwarven warfare is the battle fo 5 armies. There the goblins were able to encircle the dwarves by climbing up the spurs. If th e goblins could climb a large enough force over the mountains and behind the dwarves then it doesnt matter whether they had defences or not: the goblins would overrun them.

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PostPosted: October 26th, 2006, 1:04 pm 
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Maybe, maybe not. It all depends on where the Dwarves place their units. Notice that in the Battle of Five Armies, the good units were all lower down, without anybody higher up, so the Goblins easily flanked the area. Also remember that there were only around 514 Dwarves present - mostly it was Elves and Men.

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PostPosted: October 27th, 2006, 9:30 am 
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Still, the principle would still apply. Also, If I were the dwarf commander, I would place a guard of some hundreds of dwarves opn the mountain shou;der to stop flanking movements and muster the best part of my force in front of the gates of the Kingdom under the mountain, with men on either side of a dwarf centre. That, coupled with a combat reserve of dwarves and men would stand up to enourmous pressure b4 it broke and also would help a withdrawal into the mountain lol.

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