When treebeard states that the filfth of sauruman is washing away and the fact that saruman is locked inside the tower of Isenguard, does that mean that Treebeard and his fellow ents are destrined to guard the tower to ensure that Saruman does not come out. Does that mean that Wormtongue was too, locked in there and that sauruman is forced to stay where he is forever?

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this is a spolier from the books and the extended edition so read at your OWN risk:




in the EE there's a little argument between Saruman and Gandalf and then in the end Grima stabs Saruman, then Legolas kills Grima, Saruman falls from the tower so he's a goner....and the filth I guess it was Saruman himself and all the trash that was inside the tower that was washing away.

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Oh! Wow that's a shock. I haven't actually read the books yet but that's like a huge deal! Why did this happen?

Treebeard speaks as if Saruman is still alive so that's confusing. Did PJ just want to cut it short instead of putting in an explanation or something?

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This is from LOTR ROTK (EE)

[Gandalf, aragorn, legolas, gimli, eomer, theoden approach Orthanc, the tower of Isengard.]

Treebeard: "Young master Gandalf, I'm glad you've come. Wood and water, stock and stone I can master, but there's a Wizard to manage here, locked in his tower."

[The group looks around, uncomfortable.]

Aragorn: "Show yourself."

Gandalf: "Be careful; even in defeat Saruman is dangerous."

Gimli: "Then let's just have his head and be done with it."

Gandalf: "No, we need him alive. We need him to talk."

[A voice calls out from above, and Saruman comes into view, standing on the top of the tower.]

Saruman: "You have fought many wars and slain many men Théoden king, and made peace afterwards."

Saruman: "Can we not take council together, as we once did, my old friend? Can we not have peace, you and I?"

Théoden: "We shall have peace."

[Théoden responds softly at first, but quickly becomes more assured.]

Théoden: "We shall have peace… when you answer for the burning of the westfold, and the children that lie dead there. We shall have peace, when the lives of the soldiers, whose bodies were hewn even as they lay dead against the gates of the Hornburg, are avenged! When you hang from a gibbet for the sport of your own crows… we shall have peace."

Saruman: "Gibbets and crows? Dotard!"

Saruman: "What do you want Gandalf Greyhame? Let me guess: the key of Orthanc, or perhaps the key of Barad-dûr itself, along with the crowns of the seven kings and the rods of the five wizards!"

Gandalf: "Your treachary has already cost many lives. Thousands more are now at risk, but you could save them Saruman. You were deep in the enemy's council."

[Realizing he has something to bargain with, Saruman grins.]

Saruman: "So you have come here for information. I have some for you."

[From his robes, Saruman whips out a glowing Palantír, and stares at it raptly.]

Saruman: "Something festers in the heart of Middle-Earth. Something that you have failed to see. But the Great Eye has seen it. Even now he presses his advantage. His attack will come soon."

[Gandalf moves Shadowfax forward.]

Saruman: "You're all going to die."

Saruman: "But you know this don't you, Gandalf."

[Saruman sneers at Aragorn.]

Saruman: "You cannot think that this Ranger will ever sit upon the throne of Gondor. This exile, crept from the shadows, will never be crowned king."

Saruman: "Gandlaf does not hesistate to sacrifice those closest to him, those he professes to love. Tell me… what words of confort did you give the halfling before you sent him to his doom?"

[Gandalf sighs.]

Saruman: "The path that you have set him on can only lead to death."

Gimli: "I've heard enough." [to Legolas] "Shoot him. Stick an arrow in his gob."

[Legolas reaches for his quiver but is stopped.]

Gandalf: "No."

Gandalf: "Come down Saruman, and your live will be spared."

Saruman: "Save your pity and your mercy; I have no use for it!"

[Saruman shoots a fireball from his staff. The flames engulf Gandalf and Shadowfax.]

[The flames die out, revealing an unscathed Gandalf, to Saruman's surprise.]

Gandalf: "Saruman, your staff is broken."

[Saruman's staff shatters in his hand.]

[From behind Saruman, a hunched figure approaches: Gríma Wormtongue.]

Théoden: "Gríma, you need not follow him. You were not always as you are now. You were once a man of Rohan! Come down."

[Gríma bows to Théoden.]

Saruman: "A man of Rohan? What is the house of Rohan but a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek and rats roll on the floor with the dogs? Victory at helms deep does not belong to you, Théoden, horsemaster! You are a lesser son of greater sires."

Théoden: "Gríma, come down. Be free of him."

Saruman: "Free? He will never be free."

Gríma: "No."

Saruman: "Get down, cur!"

[Saruman slaps Gríma and sends him falling down.]

Gandalf: "Saruman, you were deep in the enemy's council. Tell us what you know."

[Gríma draws a dagger.]

Saruman: "You withdraw your guard, and I will tell you where you doom will be decided."

[Gríma lunges towards Saruman.]

Saruman: "I will not be held prisoner here."

[Gríma stabs Saruman in the back, twice.]

[Legolas shoots and hits Gríma, who falls down, dead.]

[Saruman falls off the tower and is impaled by the spoke of a large wheel.]

Gandalf: "Send word to all our allies, and to every corner of Middle-Earth that still stands free. The enemy moves against us. We need to know where he will strike."

[The wheel turns, sliding Saruman's body under the water. The Palantír drops into the shallows.]

[Treebeard returns to the scene.]

Treebeard: "The filth of Saruman is washing away. Trees will come back to live here. Young trees, wild trees."

.......

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Oh wow...I really need to get the Extended Editions...
I wished they didn't skip this scene in the theatrical version. But thanks theol

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wow
thats pretty powerful

I had no idea. Its a pity they had to miss out that scene but its all good when you have all EEs ^_^> ATM i dont But hopefully at christmas...lol.


but still.

thats sad

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you could also read the books... they're really worth it!

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And a lot better than that scene was in the EE. Especially considering that it didn't actually happen that way in the books.

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^ yeah, i was sooo mad at that scene in the films. i was screaming "that's not meant to happen!" at the tv, as though somehow that would change things. the way he dies in the book is way better, because that way you get the whole deal with the shire.

and to answer the initial question, when treebeard says "the filth of saruman is washing away", i believe he's referring to all of saruman's machinery, and the products of that industry, being swept away by the flood. treebeard was meant to be guarding saruman and wormtongue in orthanc, but in the film (EE) he dies and in the book he lets them go, so that didn't really pan out.

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Yeah. That scene gets on my nerves.

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lol it is quite confusing but i'm proud to announce i finally got the EE and i have now seen that scene lol!

:):)

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Congrats! Welcome to the club ^_^

There's been a lot of debate about that scene since the movies were filmed, personally... it makes no matter to me, those guys did a fine job!

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In the wavering firelight, Gandalf seemed suddenly to grow: he rose up, a great menacing shape like the monument of some ancient <b>King of Stone</b>...

I was a little disapointed in that scene, too, but they really didn't have a choice. If they had done it like the book, it would have messed some things up. PJ wanted to make the Ring being destroyed teh end of the war, so he had to find some other way to end Saruman. It got cut out of the theatrical, but put back in EE.

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I have yet to get the Return of the King EE. I have the first two but didn't get the third one...yet =]

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I have all of the EE and all of the Limited too. And the theatrical. Huh, I guess I'm all stocked up on LotR movies then.
I hope you do get the EE of RotK, it's really good. There are some things I wish they would have stuck in with it, but I guess four hours is long enough.

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I haven't got ANY of the EE... but really really want to.

I've got to say though, after reading the script, I like the way they did it in the book better.

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