Okay, I know that sounds really weird and all but let me make my case...

When Denethor is in the fire and Faramir is lying on the floor next to him and he barely opens his eyes and looks over at him, Denethor says, "Faramir...I..." And then-well, you know...So, by the look on his face, I think what would be really cool is if he was finally trying to tell Faramir "I love you", but never finished it.

So am I crazy??? Go back and watch it people and see if you notice that!

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Hmm.... yes, I suppose Denethor did love Faramir, but he didn't realize it until Faramir was about to die... but I haven't seen RotK in a while so I can't really say. Maybe he meant to say sorry or something.

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AWWW! I never noticed that! SAD! But kinda cool. Good ears.

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Actually, I just SAW it. It was like...his face was starting to melt from the flames and he said, "Faramir...I..." but then he didn't really have the presence of mind to say anything else.

But for once I go away from the book: I wish there had been a scene where he thinks Faramir is dead, you know when he was saying, "My line has ended!" He should have also said stuff like, "I'm sorry" and "I love you" because then when Faramir was awake later he could have lived a happier life knowing that his father did eventually love him.

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I noticed that! So, yeah, I do think he was trying to say something like that.

I always thought Denethor loved Faramir. He just didn't realize it ntil he was about to die. Quite sad, really.

Gandalf: Your father loves you Faramir!
He will remember that before the end...

It is all said

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EXACTLY! I knew there was a reason why I thought that should probably happen!

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I knew Denethor loved Faramir. However, with the whole "my line has ended" concept, I always thought it wasn't really that Denethor loved Faramir more than it was Denethor hating the idea of his line ending. This is because it is a really big deal for your line to just "cut short". This, in turn, would be an even bigger deal in a monarchy, like that, with the throne (I know that it is technically only stewardship, but it is the same concept.) being passed down through the blood line.

I see Denethor loving Faramir, but I found it said that the idea of his family's reign ending it what had to bring it out of him.

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I agree he was mostly just mad because he would have no generation (despite the fact that his precious line had NOT yet ended-by that time he'd already lost his marbles). However, I wondered if, at that very last second when the heat got to him, it hit him just like that that he really did love Faramir but it was too late to tell him. *sniff*

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(Thank you Miriel!)

Yeah, I can agree that in the last few moments that did happen. Like, if you put yourself in Denethor's shoes, he thought his son died. Every parent would have the world end when one of their children dies. So, Denethor was probably shaken up by that and realized how much he loved Faramir, but portrayed it more as a ceremonial thing that an actual love.

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Well, yes-but I mean at the very last second he may have felt actual love. If it is even possible for things to work out that way...

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It is very possible.

Especially in movies.

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True...

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Yeah... imagine dying like that. Imagine dying when you hadn't told someone you loved them. I know they wouldn't know, and you wouldn't really... like feel that after you die, but you'd be dying with that thought.

That would just be awful.

I really do feel sorry for Denethor sometimes. As much as I hate him for how he treated Faramir, he's mad, crazy, whatever... and sometimes I just feel this bit of pity for him.

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I hadn't noticed that either... interesting. That does heighten my respect for Denethor. I kind of lost all respect for him when he saw his son dead and all he could think about was how his line ended. I think, though, that when he saw Faramir he felt the loss but couldn't understand that it was love. It wasn't until after he saw Faramir was actually alive that he realized he loved him.

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Yeah, I noticed that the first time (mostly because I was expecting it after having read the books), but I was kind of disappointd that that was all they had of him mourning Faramir--in the book, he makes a whole little statement there that implies that he loves Faramir.

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