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Post subject:  Posted: May 20th, 2007, 3:30 pm |
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Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 93
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Lady Imidri wrote: Hanasían wrote: Pippen singing while Faramir and the Knights of Gondor charging into Osgoliath on their suicide run was beautiful, but was ruined by Denethor's slovenly eating. I agree. I cried during that scene, well, after a couple times of watching it and I actually knew what was going on... Faramir became my tied first favorite character(tied with Eowyn and Pippin after that) mostly because he would die to show his father how much he loves him. Plus, Faramir is a great Captain and there's something about him that makes him look awesome too... Perhaps it's the fact that he's a ranger... Rangers are sweet. Denethor RUINED the scene with him eating like a careless pig! If it would have been just Pippin and Faramir, the scen would have been waaay better!!! i couldn't even watch the scene as faramir was marching it was too sad for me... 
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Post subject: Re: Denethor Posted: August 26th, 2007, 9:22 pm |
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Joined: 10 June 2005
Posts: 1871
Location: Minas Tirith
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Gender: Female
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I never really liked Denthor. The first time I saw him, I dubbed him the Mental Furby (He wears furs and he gose mental), But there are some parts where you do have some symphathy such as when he thinks Faramir is dead and he loses it when he sees the whole host of Morder on his door step.
_________________  Faith isn't the ability to believe long and far into the misty future.
It's simply taking God at His Word and taking the next step Joni Erickson Tada
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Post subject: Posted: December 5th, 2007, 12:20 am |
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Joined: 19 November 2007
Posts: 72
Location: IN
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First of all, I'm new to the board and I must admit that I've not read everyone's posts, okay? So, if I tread on anyone's toes here, let me first say I'm sorry up front.
I had the great privillege and opportunity to speak to John Noble about this character. You see, I was just like so many of you. I just despised Denethor! My fellow LOTR pal and I would go round and round about this one! I even told Mr. Noble: "My father always told me that a good actor could make you hate them....you're a good actor!" But he's such a lovely man! Anyway, I was able to ask him if he thought that they should have filmed a scene showing him with the Palantir so that those who may not have read the books would have understood why Denethor was behaving the way that he was. He response was no. Basically, he said that Denethor had enough going on to already make him crazy - for example, Modor was knocking on his door and he had lost his beloved son, Boromir. (Now this is my thought here) Plus, remember too ~ The fact that Denethor had possession of the Palantir and was using it was alluded to when Denethor said: "Do you think the eyes of the White Tower are blind? I have seen more than you know." Those who had read the book (which I had not at the time) would have known exactly what was being referred to. Also bear in mind, this information is not in the main text, it is in the Appendix. If someone has not taken the time to read the Appendix, they would not know that Denethor had the Palantir and had used it either! Mr. Noble was also asked (not by me) about Denethor sending Faramir off to battle the way he did. In short, he gave me a whole different perspective on Denethor and made me not dislike him so much. It also helped me appreciate the depth of work the actors themselves put into preceiving their character. Yes, Mr. Noble did an excellent job with this character! And he is a very nice gentleman to boot!
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Post subject: Relationship Posted: December 5th, 2007, 2:14 pm |
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Joined: 03 June 2006
Posts: 302
Location: Portland, Oregon USA
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I think the negative characters in a story often teach in more powerful ways than the positive ones. Denethor’s character is one of the more striking examples of this.
I think Denethor’s mistake was refusing to live in the present. Instead he pondered on a dismal past and on a future that was dictated by his fear. Its not like we aren’t guilty of this too. Self reproach and “what ifs” plague our past and we worry about a future we desperately want to control. We imagine the evil that we fear becoming reality…… But it is impossible for us to take power over the future because it isn’t even real! Nor will it ever be! All we have is the present.
I think the answer is in love. Or, said another way, relationship. Relationship can only happen in the present. And relationship can strengthen, encourage and guide. But Denethor turned from relationship, both from those who could guide him like Gandalf and from those whose love would strengthen and encourage him like Faramir.
Like dominoes falling one by one, when love fails then faith dies. And when faith dies, hope falls. And with the death of hope comes despair. In failing to live and love in the present Denethor started a chain of action that could only end in despair. Instead he lived in a dark past and a future full of fear and eventually could see things no other way.
Quote: “Despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt.” - Gandalf
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"If you do not find a way, no one will."
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Post subject: Posted: December 12th, 2007, 7:29 pm |
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Joined: 10 June 2005
Posts: 1871
Location: Minas Tirith
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Good point. And he did live in the path.
Can someone explain to me why Gandalf said that he was using his grief over Boromir's death as a cloak. What was he hiding?
_________________ Faith isn't the ability to believe long and far into the misty future.
It's simply taking God at His Word and taking the next step Joni Erickson Tada
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Post subject: Posted: December 13th, 2007, 3:52 am |
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Joined: 07 December 2007
Posts: 34
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I'm not exactly sure Ashwise, but I imagine Gandalf is refering to the fact that Denethor is using Boromir's death as an excuse for not taking any steps in defending Gondor from Saurons forces.
I don't know if i'm right, it's just what I think.
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But where's the Rum gone?
~ Monny AKA Sasukeistotallyhot ~
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Post subject: Posted: December 15th, 2007, 4:16 am |
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Joined: 22 November 2006
Posts: 121
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I agree, Nimore Elenrana. I think Denethor didn't want to take any course of action because he had already 'seen' through the palantir the might of Sauron, and felt that it was hopeless. Not to mention he was slightly crazy at this time.....  _________________ 
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Post subject: Posted: December 29th, 2007, 2:06 pm |
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Joined: 19 November 2007
Posts: 72
Location: IN
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Ashwise wrote: Good point. And he did live in the path.
Can someone explain to me why Gandalf said that he was using his grief over Boromir's death as a cloak. What was he hiding?
Is this statement from the film or from the book? I don't seem to recall it at the moment....
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Post subject: Re: Relationship Posted: December 29th, 2007, 2:48 pm |
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Joined: 17 June 2005
Posts: 844
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Sinbearer wrote: In failing to live and love in the present Denethor started a chain of action that could only end in despair. Instead he lived in a dark past and a future full of fear and eventually could see things no other way. Quote: “Despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt.” - Gandalf That is a good way of looking at it. Denethor had become so fixated on his problem that it became the filter through which everything passed. This kind of life just debilitates a person. I'm sure everyone knows someone who had something terrible happen in their past. Some people can't get beyond it, and it is a burden on them because they feel like it should have been different or they could have changed it. So, they 'hide' behind their past--behind bad things that happened to them.
It is so easy to fall into as well. For me personally, fear and worry can be a problem. It is terrifying to be caught in their clutches. But, it is possible to put those behind you and to look to the future in hope. You can't change the past, but you can press on with hope.
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Post subject: Posted: December 29th, 2007, 2:53 pm |
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Joined: 16 March 2006
Posts: 20465
Location: Gondolin
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Guard of the Citadel wrote: Ashwise wrote: Good point. And he did live in the path.
Can someone explain to me why Gandalf said that he was using his grief over Boromir's death as a cloak. What was he hiding? Is this statement from the film or from the book? I don't seem to recall it at the moment....That was from the film. I don't think that was in the book.... *forgets* _________________ 
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