I think Boromir was brave. His mind may have been weak, but it was brave of him to admit it. He has his weaknesses and strong points both physically & mentally. He was brave physically and mentally for his battles and what he believed in. Except the temptation for the ring made him weak.

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Capt. Jack: Shoot him and cut out his tongue! Then shoot his tongue!..and trim that scraggly beard.

yAAAy! The <a href="http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/dec2007/tc20071218_443372.htm">Hobbit movie</a> is back on!!! Movie buffs get excited!

I would like to bring up the point that 'brave' and 'weak' are not necessarily opposites. Brave implies making choices and attempting, even without success, things that many would not. Weak isn't a word I don't like to apply to a person as a whole. To certain qualities, or lack of, yes. But not a person.
Boromir acted bravely. He never turned away from a challenge, no matter what the chances of his survival were. He offered to be in the Fellowship, knowing full well the whole might of the enemy was to be directed at them. And he knew that this was no small threat, having fought against it for many year in Gondor.

He wanted to use the Ring for Gondor. Was this a weakness? He knew it had defeated many before him. Yet he still would do anything to save his people. It was a selfless cause. Is that a weakness to wish that your people, those who's protection you're intrusted with, are safe?

He had a strength that worked against him, you could say. He was so determined to believe that he would save his people with the Ring that it binded him. He could not understand how something could be purely evil, and not ever be used for good. Was that his weakness? To not always understand?

I don't think you could say that Boromir was weak. He was merely had a desire to save his people, and the Ring used that to get hold of him. Maybe Aragorn was stronger against the power of the Ring. Less corruptable. But he had lived with the knowledge of the Ring and it's evil for far longer than Boromir. He had been taught to believe that it would destroy his people long before he ever thought of saving them with it. Boromir had wanted to save them with it before he had been told he couldn't. He wasn't weak. He didn't truly understand, or maybe believe, but he was not weak.

Well said Celebwen! I agree. We cannot say a man is weak because he doesn't understand, although it may weaken his cause and course.

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"If you do not find a way, no one will."

I was contemplating the humility of Galadriel when she refused the ring and said, “I pass the test, I will diminish and go into the west and remain Galadriel.”

Then I thought of Boromir. His struggle with the ring was also an issue of humility. His father, Denethor, proudly declared that he would not bow to a descendant of Isildur. I can see that same struggle in his son right from when he first arrived at the Council of Elrond.

It took much humility for the pride of Boromir to submit to the leadership of Aragorn. He struggled with it. And the ring was always there, screaming at him to take things into his own hands.

But, in the end, his words were the same as the Lady Galadriel of whom he said, “I do not feel to sure of this Elvish Lady and her purposes.” This is amazing to me because so few men in his position would really do this.
In essence he simply said, “I will diminish and submit to the commands of Aragorn, the true king.” That was Boromir’s decission and he gave his last full measure doing just that.

If you are looking for an incredible example of character...look no farther!

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"If you do not find a way, no one will."

For me it isn't one way or the other. He has his weak spots, but all of us do, in that case I would have to say he is brave. On the other hand you have to face your toughest challenges to be considered brave in my opinion and he could not so in that respect he is weak. So like I said, for me it goes both ways, I am just undecided I suppose.

I really like how Sinbearer put it in an earlier post.

We are not born brave or weak, we come into the braveness or weakness as we grow up. We are who we are because of the people around us. Boromir grew up loved and doted upon by his father. He was the older brother who recieved all the attention and praise and all the instruction. He was taught to be brave and to not hesitate in battle, overall, he was taught to be a perfect warrior. Yet, every perfect warrior has their flaws. Whether it be flaws in judgement, or aim, or even personality.
Boromir enters the Fellowship ready to prove himself as one of the best, as a brave and elite warrior. He wanted to show his father what he could do so that he would not become unwanted like Faramir.
This was also his weakness. For all his bravery in battle he had a weakness for acceptance. He craved to be accepted and to do the right thing. He couldn't stand to be hated by anyone, much less his own father.
So, for every bravery in a person there must be a weakness to balance it. Boromir found that balance as he sacrificed himself for Merry and Pippin I believe.

uhm yeah I do agree with those of you that said Boromir is a very brave man. I do think the Ring operated on him so quickly that we could even think he's a coward, but we have seen he's not. He fought til the end for Merry and Pippin's help, even to death.
I think also Denethor was a very bad influence for him, he always had to please him so that could be a kinda negative fact for him.
Anyway, there's no doubt at all of the value and courage of Boromir

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...if you trust nothing, trust this, trust us...



...how do you go on when in your heart you begin to understand there's no going back?...

Yes, quite true, we can not doubt his courage overall. He was a courageous man, though a fool in some cases.

Lareal, your words about fathers and acceptance got me thinking. It seems like daddy’s time and acceptance is something that is universally craved by boys (and girls too.) and part of the fabric that children are made of. Rejection by dad is the greatest blow a boy can receive.

As I think about it though, I’m not sure a child is weak because he craves his father’s acceptance. It is just a natural phenomena that is built into the fabric of children and can be played for good or bad depending on the father. If a father takes hold and grips those groping young hands with tender strength and holds on till those young feet have confidence on the sometimes dark and slippery path of life, then I think this natural dynamic in a child’s heart can play to strength.

It is such a bummer that so many fathers fall down here and pass on weakness instead of strength.

Boromir’s father was a noble man—valiant, proud and wise in many ways but weak in others. I guess the question is: what kind of a father really was Denethor? He favored Boromir but even that is not always good if it is done for a father’s selfish reasons. It can become an unbearable burden to a child as he constantly tries to measure up to expectations.

I think I understand what you are saying about the balance. Boromir atoned for the weakness gifted him by his father and brought into focus by the ring, by his act of bravery in defending the Fellowship. Certainly, the greatest act of courage is to face weakness. The hardest thing is to face our own insecurities and the ways we have failed.

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"If you do not find a way, no one will."

...so in point of fact, we all seem to agree that Boromir was brave, fearless, honorable, with human frailities...like all of us...right?

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MvL/Nurr
my Aragorn

Yes, in short Zandain that is what we have agreed on. I thank you for bringing up the word's "human frailities", because that is something we can all relate to and we all possess. Boromir is human just as we are, he thinks like we do, and acts like we do. We are no braver or weaker than him as he is to us.
We all have our weaknesses in life, just as Boromir does, but that does not make us completely weak. Nor when we overcome our weakness does it make us brave or strong. The two balance eachother out, so that not one is more than the other. We need our weaknesses so that we may be human, but we need our bravery so that we may overcome the weakness.

he had both strengths and weaknesses.but was particualry receptive to the ring because of his anxiety for his state.he was very loyal to his father and trusted his judgement and daddy wanted the ring.the ring actually used his loyalty against him.hes alot like most regular army officers.might is right and the end justifies the means.he did not strike me as very intelligent.a pwerfull tool is to be used against the enemy regardless of costs incomprehensible to him ,being somebody of average intelligence and linear thinking and little imagination.

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proud to be a pipe smoker like JJRT

I personally always liked Boromir, even when he was acting "evil". He always seemed to me like a great and noble captain, one capable of long protecting the land of Gondor by his valour alone. I'm glad he died in a way though, because without him dieing the fellowship would have never gone to Rohan and saved all those people

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Great is the victory of the Noldoli

I think that's quite true. And he died in a way that was suitable for him. He died really gloriously defending the helpless Hobbits against many foes, and he fought them to the end.

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i agree to pretty much what everyone is saying about boromir
but istill dont like denethor very much
he wasnt very nice to faramir at all even in the books
i wish that boromir had not died

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"I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend."
- Faramir

Uhm, personally I consider Boromir a noble person. You know, he did wrong when attacking Frodo, but he had so much pressure on him. He was carrying an enormous responsability on his back: Gondor's throne and Gondor's salvation and security were in his hands so he found the best solution in the ring. I don't think that accusing him of being a traitor is the best way of judging him. The Ring operated in all the members of the Fellowship, only that it found different personalities and strength in each one. Boromir failed that's true. But I keep on considering him a great warrior, an excellent person and a good friend

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..>>are u sure that there will be a "tomorrow"?<<..



Since I met u, I knew you were special thank you for everything Fer ^^
How do you go on when in your heart you begin to understand, there's no going back?